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Beaten down dividend paying shares that could be good for the long term

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I would be interested in a thread where we can discuss beaten down dividend paying shares that could be good for the long term - I've bought quite a few already mainly in the FTSE 250. There's quite a lot I like about John Maynard Keynes as well who was actually one of the most successful value investors during the Great Depression:

 

http://www.investmentu.com/IUEL/2008/Decem...ard-keynes.html

 

It would seem that this type of investing could be one of the best ways to make money in the following years.

 

I’m interested in picking up beaten down dividend paying shares that could be good for the long term too.

 

I’m currently eying up

 

BP

TESCO PLC

GLAXOSMITHKLINE

EXXON MOBIL CP

COSTAIN GROUP

INTEL CORPORATION

COCA COLA CO THE

 

So far I have only bought KAZAKHMY

 

What have you bought?

 

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Some of my shares (financials) were bought too early as they clearly havn't bottomed yet, but others appear to have bottomed and are already up. One of the things I look for when buying a dividend paying share is to see that it has good dividend cover of at least 1.5, which means you are more likely (but not always) likely to get paid. The other thing is obviously not too much debt which might cause the company to have a rights issue which would dilute your shares if you didn't take it up (however I think the rights have a value which can be sold if you don't want to buy more shares in a company and become more exposed to them, but this is all added hastle I am keen to avoid!)

 

When looking for potential high yielding shares, we can use a share filter like this one:

 

http://www.iii.co.uk/markets/?type=stockfilter

 

This enables us to find potential shares quickly without having to go through all the shares individually to retreive the data - after we have selected potential candidates we can then look more closely at things like debt and net asset value etc.

 

Currently I'm sticking with FTSE 100 and FTSE 250 listed companies as these are generally large enough to hopefully survive the economic downturn, although there are others outside of the FTSE 250 which are still very big companies and still probably worth a look, particularly as they are going to be the most oversold and overlooked but possibly more risky.

 

These are the FTSE 100 listed high yielding shares that I own:

 

Aviva - it's a life insurance financial so be careful as they were recently hit, cut most of dividend

BT - I think it has a lot of debt and a pension deficit

Barclays - be very careful with any bank as too many questions and high risk

Marks and Spencer - still up today

Old Mutual - life insurance again and cut the dividend

Lloyds - who knows what will happen, I'll try and sell this on the next bounce

BP - yield quite good at current price

 

 

I'll list my FTSE 250 ones at a later date...

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BE CAREFUL,

The dividends can be cut. (Just look at the banks!)

 

Have a look at what Percentage of profits are being paid out, and the latest quarter's earnings trend.

Debt levels matter too.

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BE CAREFUL,

The dividends can be cut. (Just look at the banks!)

 

Have a look at what Percentage of profits are being paid out, and the latest quarter's earnings trend.

Debt levels matter too.

 

Where can I get debt data from?

 

Do you download acounts for each company you are looking at?

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Oil and Gas Royalty Trusts aswell as MLP Oil and gas pipeline operators in the US are on my radar. I have n't done much research as yet but I do know some have already cut their distributions because of the down turn. The yields are still good, when things improve so will their distributions and obviously share price. A strategy would be to either average in or lock in to good yields now and hedge your investment with an equal position in DDG, that will effectively half your yields until the hedge is fully unwound. Unwinding the hedge gradually will help to avoid miss-timing the bottom.

 

Oil and Gas Royality Trusts and current distributions(NYSE):

 

BPT 12.69%

SJT 8.48%

SBR 8.62%

DMLP 14.35% (NASDAQ)

HGT 8.26%

PBT 5.72%

CRT 7.70%

 

MLP Oil and gas pipleline operators(NYSE)

 

KMP 9.9%

MMP 10.53%

ETP 10.67%

OKS 12.26%

NS 10.03%

PAA 9.75%

 

There are many other MLP's but I've singled these one out as a read a report from Standard & Poors that it expected these particular partnerships would maintain their distributions on 2009, I'll post it up if I can find it again.

 

There is a fund composed of MLPs - BSR http://www.alerian.com/etn but it's an ETN so I'm not so keen on that but there are closed end funds for the royalty trusts:

 

TYG 11.68%

TYY 11.89%

TTO ?

 

In the case of the MLPs they are required by law to pay out a large percentage of their after tax profits (98% I think) so I'd imagine when the economy picks up the distributions will increase and therefore provide a greater ROI. It remind me of what happened to Homestake during the depression, for anyone that got in early the dividends were progressively increased and consequently the yield ended up as 50% of the purchase price!

 

EDIT: Just thought I'd add, although these in the main charge a toll for transporting various energy products they are still price sensitive to the price of the products. Apparently when their customers are not making money they get squeezed on their pricing. Hence DDG as a hedge, anyone know better please let me know.

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These are the FTSE 100 listed high yielding shares that I own:

 

Aviva - it's a life insurance financial so be careful as they were recently hit, cut most of dividend

BT - I think it has a lot of debt and a pension deficit

Barclays - be very careful with any bank as too many questions and high risk

Marks and Spencer - still up today

Old Mutual - life insurance again and cut the dividend

Lloyds - who knows what will happen, I'll try and sell this on the next bounce

BP - yield quite good at current price

 

So you have insurance, financials & retail, these are all the sectors that I am very much trying to avoid the moment. Aren't you worried about derivative exposure?

 

I agree Oil is a good buy at the moment.

 

 

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Here's a suggestion I have picked up from the Money & Markets newsletter;

 

Teva Pharmaceutical (TEVA)

 

This generic drug maker formulates generic versions of just about everything. It has strategic alliances with Impax Laboratories Lundbeck, Jexys Pharmaceuticals and Barr Pharmaceuticals. It should be a winner as the Obama administration reworks the nation's health-care system and tries to cut costs.

 

Teva has plenty of good news coming out of its drug pipeline ...

 

 

Teva Pharmaceutical makes generic versions of just about everything.

It has obtained U.S. FDA approval to market generic Imitrex, a migraine treatment made by GlaxoSmithKline. Branded Imitrex had $1 billion in sales in 2008. Teva has six-month market exclusivity, and it will begin deliveries immediately.

 

Last month, European regulators approved Teva's multiple sclerosis drug Copaxone as a preventative treatment. The ruling allows Teva to market the injectable drug in 24 European Union countries. U.S. approval for Copaxone is pending.

 

Teva also received final approval to market its generic version of Janssen's antipsychotic agent Risperdal. The brand-name version did $78 million in sales in the 1-year period through last September.

Not all the news is rosy. Teva reported a fourth-quarter loss of $688 million, or 88 cents a share, compared with year-earlier net income of $570 million, or 69 cents a share. But this is due to items including the acquisition of in-process research and development of $992 million in connection with the acquisition of Barr Pharmaceuticals in December. Excluding those special items, Teva's earnings were $634 million, or 76 cents a share.

 

Raising Its Dividend

 

However, that bad news isn't so bad considering that, at the same time, Teva raised its quarterly dividend by 33 percent to nearly 15 cents per share. I think that shows the pain is short-term for Teva.

 

Sales in the quarter rose to $2.85 billion from $2.58 billion a year earlier.

 

Now, let's look at the chart.

 

Teva is near support at 41.50. I think short-term weakness could offer a good entry point, as Teva's stock has pulled back to support. It should rally to overhead resistance at 50, a 20 percent move higher.

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...

Aviva - it's a life insurance financial so be careful as they were recently hit, cut most of dividend

BT - I think it has a lot of debt and a pension deficit

Barclays - be very careful with any bank as too many questions and high risk

Marks and Spencer - still up today

Old Mutual - life insurance again and cut the dividend

Lloyds - who knows what will happen, I'll try and sell this on the next bounce

BP - yield quite good at current price

...

 

I don’t like the look of any of your choices with the exception of BP.

 

I’m trying to stick to companies who produce an essential or popular (+cheap) product

 

 

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Oil and Gas Royalty Trusts aswell as MLP Oil and gas pipeline operators in the US are on my radar. I have n't done much research as yet but I do know some have already cut their distributions because of the down turn. The yields are still good, when things improve so will their distributions and obviously share price. A strategy would be to either average in or lock in to good yields now and hedge your investment with an equal position in DDG, that will effectively half your yields until the hedge is fully unwound. Unwinding the hedge gradually will help to avoid miss-timing the bottom.

 

Oil and Gas Royality Trusts and current distributions(NYSE):

 

BPT 12.69%

SJT 8.48%

SBR 8.62%

DMLP 14.35% (NASDAQ)

HGT 8.26%

PBT 5.72%

CRT 7.70%

 

MLP Oil and gas pipleline operators(NYSE)

 

KMP 9.9%

MMP 10.53%

ETP 10.67%

OKS 12.26%

NS 10.03%

PAA 9.75%

 

There are many other MLP's but I've singled these one out as a read a report from Standard & Poors that it expected these particular partnerships would maintain their distributions on 2009, I'll post it up if I can find it again.

 

There is a fund composed of MLPs - BSR http://www.alerian.com/etn but it's an ETN so I'm not so keen on that but there are closed end funds for the royalty trusts:

 

TYG 11.68%

TYY 11.89%

TTO ?

 

In the case of the MLPs they are required by law to pay out a large percentage of their after tax profits (98% I think) so I'd imagine when the economy picks up the distributions will increase and therefore provide a greater ROI. It remind me of what happened to Homestake during the depression, for anyone that got in early the dividends were progressively increased and consequently the yield ended up as 50% of the purchase price!

 

EDIT: Just thought I'd add, although these in the main charge a toll for transporting various energy products they are still price sensitive to the price of the products. Apparently when their customers are not making money they get squeezed on their pricing. Hence DDG as a hedge, anyone know better please let me know.

Forgot to add that most if not all of these are tradeable with Selftrade which implies they are crest settled and therefore should also be available through other UK discount brokers. Most will require a telephone call.

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So you have insurance, financials & retail, these are all the sectors that I am very much trying to avoid the moment. Aren't you worried about derivative exposure?

 

I agree Oil is a good buy at the moment.

 

Yes - I've screwed up if I am to be honest, but didn't think the FTSE would get as low as this when I bought in October/November. Reducing the exposure to some of these in the rally. Hedged with gold, silver and platinum positions all the way.......

 

I don’t like the look of any of your choices with the exception of BP.

 

I’m trying to stick to companies who produce an essential or popular (+cheap) product

 

Yep, I screwed up but am being completely honest - hope to reduce the exposure into this rally if it continues and may just swing trade stocks as opposed to buy and hold (and get burnt). It's a learning process - I have to get slightly burnt to learn the lessons and have been able to trade back losses before.

 

Bought Astrazeneca last week

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I chose to put Glaxo on my watchlist over AZN. I can’t remember why.

 

I’m currently looking at United Utilities or Severn Trent. They are at 10+ lows. Lower than they were in November.

 

Water is one of them things people are forced to buy. There’s a big risk of customer default at the moment but I can’t see HMG not stepping in to keep these companies alive and healthy (with taxpayer money).

 

My gut feel is SVT is in better shape because they have announced a multimillion pound early start investment programme.

 

They must have some money or Favourable credit lines if they can start their investment early.

 

EDIT: Got SVT at 1008 including fees

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Where can I get debt data from?

 

Do you download acounts for each company you are looking at?

 

Personally I take a quick look using digital look - or the LSE website - for brief details on the "fundamentals" of a company - this gives the headline net debt figure

 

Then if still interested I download the report and look at its cash flow.

 

But these days its complicated, its not just the total debt, its debt that falls due soon and has to be repaid + possible pension fund liabilities - these are not shown under net debt but are hidden elsewhere in the report! Companies with no debt are more simple.

 

I prefer to follow the something akin to the Benjamin Graham style where possible myself and look for cash rich companies with low market values. When the bottom drops out of the market these go on sale (the Mr Market philosophy) and you can sometimes pick up profitable companies for less than the cash in bank. Ben Graham suggested going back through 10 years of accounts and averaging out the ratio's !! BUT even in this digital age, where can you get 10 years worth of data? So I cant follow it completely but any company which matches these kind of parameters I consider is worth a second look

EDIT - this method is still not without risk !!!!

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These are the FTSE 100 listed high yielding shares that I own:

 

Aviva - it's a life insurance financial so be careful as they were recently hit, cut most of dividend

BT - I think it has a lot of debt and a pension deficit

Barclays - be very careful with any bank as too many questions and high risk

Marks and Spencer - still up today

Old Mutual - life insurance again and cut the dividend

Lloyds - who knows what will happen, I'll try and sell this on the next bounce

BP - yield quite good at current price

 

 

I'll list my FTSE 250 ones at a later date...

 

re Aviva + OM- life insurers are considered a geared play on the market so it will probably get hauled along nicely if the market continues to rise. But not sure about long term.

 

Would say that Aviva (or Norwich Union as the UK General Insurance/Life/Pensions brand is known) - NU I know well as I am in the commercial general insurance industry - is switched on when it comes to making a profit for shareholders compared to its peers. However that said, its a difficult industry to remain profitable in long term.

 

M&S - what are your views on its property portfolio?

 

BT - I eyed this up a few years back and went for Vodafone instead! BT to me seems to be converting a good part of its business into IT contracting. There may well be a convergence of telephone and IT technology. But a look at the record of the other major UK listed IT contractors told me something about the difficulties of the IT business. Voda for me were a more of a pure telecoms play and therefore more defensive with still a decent yield. That was a few years back!

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Yep, I screwed up but am being completely honest - hope to reduce the exposure into this rally if it continues and may just swing trade stocks as opposed to buy and hold (and get burnt). It's a learning process - I have to get slightly burnt to learn the lessons and have been able to trade back losses before.

I think that is a good choice if you have the right set up and can monitor the markets more or less on a daily basis. For many, the day job will get in the way.

 

Until we get (or find) the next bull market, or spot its green shoots, I think buy and hold is dead.

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Until we get (or find) the next bull market, or spot its green shoots, I think buy and hold is dead.

 

I agree. I've recently had some success with swing trading Barclays.

 

It looked cheap to me at 88p on 20 Jan so I went long a few £s/pt

on 22 Jan they were down at 55p I added some more. By my reckoning they were taking a pasting "by association" rather than with any real substance.

 

I took some profits up at 90p, 100p and 110p on 26, 27 & 28 Jan.

 

Took further profit at 118p on 10 Feb.

 

Bought in again at 58p on 9 March.

 

I took some profits at 110p and 130p last week. They're now sitting pretty at 173p and I'm wondering whether to dump the lot on Monday, in anticipation of a swing back down below 100p at some point.

 

 

 

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I think that is a good choice if you have the right set up and can monitor the markets more or less on a daily basis. For many, the day job will get in the way.

 

Until we get (or find) the next bull market, or spot its green shoots, I think buy and hold is dead.

 

I agree, the day job gets in the way and there's just too much work involved to research good companies - even if a company looks good, there can be some big hidden debt somewhere. I've abandoned the idea as I realise that the SM isn't going to rebound like I thought it would and the seasonal trends for 2010, 2011 and 2012 don't look good (just like the early 30's and early 40's). We are in a secular stocks bear market which is deflationary in nature like the one that existed from 1929 to 1949 - the secular stocks bear market of 1966 to 1982 was in an inflationary period.

 

So I'm back to swing trading my ISA (which has lost quite a lot due to buy and hold) as well as my main trading account which was not buy and hold. I hate the way that companies cut dividends and have rights issues, so it's just easier and safer (mentally) to just buy something that is oversold and sell when it is overbought and have a nice profit for risking capital.

 

It's easier to trade on technicals than it is on fundamentals and to be honest, I actually get more satisfaction/less stress from buying low and then selling for a profit, rather than seeing a potential 33% profit dissappear because I've held and maybe then turn into a big loss. This happened to me with Aviva and when I had bought at 300p and could have sold at 400p and then saw the share price go down to 160p - all the brokers had it as a BUY or STRONG HOLD but what do they really know?

 

 

 

I agree. I've recently had some success with swing trading Barclays.

 

It looked cheap to me at 88p on 20 Jan so I went long a few £s/pt

on 22 Jan they were down at 55p I added some more. By my reckoning they were taking a pasting "by association" rather than with any real substance.

 

I took some profits up at 90p, 100p and 110p on 26, 27 & 28 Jan.

 

Took further profit at 118p on 10 Feb.

 

Bought in again at 58p on 9 March.

 

I took some profits at 110p and 130p last week. They're now sitting pretty at 173p and I'm wondering whether to dump the lot on Monday, in anticipation of a swing back down below 100p at some point.

 

Nice one - if you catch it right then it's a very profitable trade, but I got it wrong the last time when I bought at 130p and saw it go to 48.5p. I'm happy to trade energy, mining and PM stocks for now and stay away from financials unless they look really oversold again.

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Anyone interested in Barclay shares really should read this

 

http://ftalphaville.ft.com/blog/2009/03/16...out-of-control/

 

and Barclays rebuttal here

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/cb5f42c8-18ea-11...00779fd2ac.html

 

Simple. Barclays has been scrambling to raise cash for a good two months now and one of the easiest ways of doing that would be to sell all or part of one of its best businesses, BGI. Yet all the time it has to continue spinning the line that its balance sheet is somehow less toxic than its rivals, RBS and Lloyds, which are now effectively state-controled.

 

State-interference must be avoided at all costs since that would cost Barclays its lucrative tax avoidance business and also cost Messrs John Varley and Bob Diamond their jobs. If that necessitates leading the stock market astray and/or flogging off large bits of the family silver, so be it.

 

but the best and most sensible bit IMO is

 

To conclude here we’d refer back to what we will now call the Posen Doctrine - the bank crisis action plan recently put in front of congress by the deputy director of the Peterson Institute, Adam Posen.

 

This says, in short: sack ‘em. Sack the bank management, sack the regulators and sack the supervisors, because in a banking crisis all these parties are incentivised to lie and spin and obfuscate. Only then will you get the visibility and steeliness to decide which banks are going to survive and which should fail.

 

If nothing else its an interesting little tiff between the FT and Barclays

 

double post

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Anyone interested in Barclay shares really should read this

 

http://ftalphaville.ft.com/blog/2009/03/16...out-of-control/

 

and Barclays rebuttal here

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/cb5f42c8-18ea-11...00779fd2ac.html

 

Simple. Barclays has been scrambling to raise cash for a good two months now and one of the easiest ways of doing that would be to sell all or part of one of its best businesses, BGI. Yet all the time it has to continue spinning the line that its balance sheet is somehow less toxic than its rivals, RBS and Lloyds, which are now effectively state-controled.

 

State-interference must be avoided at all costs since that would cost Barclays its lucrative tax avoidance business and also cost Messrs John Varley and Bob Diamond their jobs. If that necessitates leading the stock market astray and/or flogging off large bits of the family silver, so be it.

 

but the best and most sensible bit IMO is

 

To conclude here we’d refer back to what we will now call the Posen Doctrine - the bank crisis action plan recently put in front of congress by the deputy director of the Peterson Institute, Adam Posen.

 

This says, in short: sack ‘em. Sack the bank management, sack the regulators and sack the supervisors, because in a banking crisis all these parties are incentivised to lie and spin and obfuscate. Only then will you get the visibility and steeliness to decide which banks are going to survive and which should fail.

 

If nothing else its an interesting little tiff between the FT and Barclays

 

double post

It is really difficult to see as to why anyone would invest in a bank right now to get a dividend as many of them probably won't be paying anything out for years. Those where the Government are the biggest shareholder even less so. If you are thinking 15-20 years and can bet on most of them surviving maybe, but right now there are probably other sectors better placed.

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These are the FTSE 100 listed high yielding shares that I own:

 

Marks and Spencer - still up today

Are you still holding Marks and Spencer? They surprised the market yesterday and had a good day, although even they may cut the dividend in the short term at least.

 

Shares in retailer Marks & Spencer (MKS) jumped by 31.5p to 296p after a better performance at the food arm helped sales beat expectations for the last three months of the financial year. On a like-for-like basis, UK sales in the three months to March fell 4.2% with general merchandise down 4.8% and food 3.7% lower. However, analysts had been expecting a fall of 6.5% to 7.5%. Group sales rose by 1.9% with UK sales down 0.3%. Of that, general merchandise fell by 1.2%, with clothing down 1% and home products sales 2.3% lower, while food rose by 0.4%. Meanwhile, online sales rose by 20% with international sales up 23%. Chairman Sir Stuart Rose commented: "Our customers are responding positively to the actions we have taken, resulting in an improved sales performance this quarter in both General Merchandise and Foods." The firm said customers responded well to its its increased innovation, better ranging and sharper values highlighted by its Wise Buys, Dine In and Family Favourite offers. "In line with our previous guidance for 2008/09, we expect UK retail gross margin to be around 175 basis points lower than last year, operating cost growth of 4-5% and capital expenditure to be no more than 700 million pounds," the statement concluded. "The figures suggest that Q3 2008/9 may have marked the nadir of M&S's sales performance in the current downturn. In particular, there are signs that the turnaround strategy for Food, introduced by the new Director of Food, John Dixon (appointed July 2008), may be gaining traction," commented broker Charles Stanley. "With the balance sheet already starting to look slightly stretched (H1 2008/9 gearing 173%), we expect a 50% dividend cut to be announced with the full year results," it added.

 

UK Analyst Market Report

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Are you still holding Marks and Spencer? They surprised the market yesterday and had a good day, although even they may cut the dividend in the short term at least.

 

Not anymore, I sold any retail shares I had - I've abandoned the value investing approach for now as I think it's too early and even the great Warren Buffett got it wrong. Seasonally (10-year Dow cycle), I don't see years 2010, 2011 and the beginning of 2012 as being very good so I'm going to stick with trading for now. I just can't handle holding shares anymore that keep dropping in value, have rights issues diluting the share price or dividends being axed/cut.

 

I'm happier being out of the market and in lots of cash when the market becomes overbought - swing trading seems the better stratergy for now and positioning for the rallies as and when they occur.

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Not anymore, I sold any retail shares I had - I've abandoned the value investing approach for now as I think it's too early and even the great Warren Buffett got it wrong. Seasonally (10-year Dow cycle), I don't see years 2010, 2011 and the beginning of 2012 as being very good so I'm going to stick with trading for now. I just can't handle holding shares anymore that keep dropping in value, have rights issues diluting the share price or dividends being axed/cut.

 

I'm happier being out of the market and in lots of cash when the market becomes overbought - swing trading seems the better stratergy for now and positioning for the rallies as and when they occur.

I would tend to agree. I think swing trading over a few days or weeks is probably the way to go right now.

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I'm happier being out of the market and in lots of cash when the market becomes overbought - swing trading seems the better stratergy for now and positioning for the rallies as and when they occur.

 

I find ETFs and in particular the inverse ETFs ideal vehicles for swing trading the markets under these conditions. ETFs for playing the UK or European markets are very limited but there is a bit more choice playing the US indices and the sectors of those indices. If you're interested take a look at proshares http://www.proshares.com/funds. The 2x leveraged ones are very profitable but because of the way they compound losses they are not to be held for too long if the market goes against you for a few consecutive days. Absoutely ideal if you get consecutive up days though, I've seen double digit returns in a day sometimes two or three days. Having said that the single ones may be more suitable if you're not able to be near a screen very often during the day. The spiders are suitable for single long indices(DIA & SPY)and sectors of those indices http://www.sectorspdr.com/

 

Another thing is, Tom O'brien trades these and some of his regular callers frequently call in asking for entry and exit points using his timing the trade metholodgy. Always a help if you're a little unsure about your entry or exit points.

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I find ETFs and in particular the inverse ETFs ideal vehicles for swing trading the markets under these conditions. ETFs for playing the UK or European markets are very limited but there is a bit more choice playing the US indices and the sectors of those indices. If you're interested take a look at proshares http://www.proshares.com/funds. The 2x leveraged ones are very profitable but because of the way they compound losses they are not to be held for too long if the market goes against you for a few consecutive days. Absoutely ideal if you get consecutive up days though, I've seen double digit returns in a day sometimes two or three days. Having said that the single ones may be more suitable if you're not able to be near a screen very often during the day. The spiders are suitable for single long indices(DIA & SPY)and sectors of those indices http://www.sectorspdr.com/

 

Another thing is, Tom O'brien trades these and some of his regular callers frequently call in asking for entry and exit points using his timing the trade metholodgy. Always a help if you're a little unsure about your entry or exit points.

 

Thanks for that GTG - the other thing I'm starting to appreciate with swing trading is that if you start to get it right you can play the short side as well using the inverse ETF's to capture additional profit on the downside. I havn't been trading that long (since October last year) and have been learning fast.... the twists and turns of this brutal bear market is teching me all the lessons I should ever need. I'm a technical trader and to be honest, I think fundamentals don't matter as much - just trade what you see and the price whilst ignoring the news!..... less time consuming as well.

 

I'm UK based and will be changing brokers in the summer (maybe Barclays) so hopefully they will offer more of what I'm looking for.

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Thanks for that GTG - the other thing I'm starting to appreciate with swing trading is that if you start to get it right you can play the short side as well using the inverse ETF's to capture additional profit on the downside. I havn't been trading that long (since October last year) and have been learning fast.... the twists and turns of this brutal bear market is teching me all the lessons I should ever need. 1)I'm a technical trader and to be honest, I think fundamentals don't matter as much - just trade what you see and the price whilst ignoring the news!..... less time consuming as well.

 

2)I'm UK based and will be changing brokers in the summer (maybe Barclays) so hopefully they will offer more of what I'm looking for.

 

Welcome to the bears club :)

 

1)I agree entirely in the current climate, work smart not hard! Mr market is always right.

 

2) I'm a UK resident, IMHO after much research and having experienced one or two, when it comes to trading on US markets through UK brokers a phrase and one word comes to mind... "rip off" and in the case of the discount brokers "pathetic". I've seen reports of incompetance from a number of people about Barclays e.g. the last one was that they did not know how to asssess if an equity is ISA eligible. Of course if you're trading through and ISA we have no choice but to suffer a UK broker. If you're trading in an ordinary brokerage account i.e outside an ISA or sipp then you'd be better looking for a North American broker. I've heard Interactive Brokers are good http://www.interactivebrokers.co.uk/en/main.php one dollar purchase/sell commission for up to 100 shares. DrBubbs Fidelity for stocks and Cannacord for TSX.v stocks and perhaps Thinkorswim (T. O'Briens broker). I trade inside my ISA's ATM but considering pulling out to one of the mentioned brokers, bearing in mind we all have an annual CGT allowance of £9600. IB have been blowing hot and cold over a sipp account for a while now so that is a one to watch for the future.

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Welcome to the bears club :)

 

1)I agree entirely in the current climate, work smart not hard! Mr market is always right.

 

2) I'm a UK resident, IMHO after much research and having experienced one or two, when it comes to trading on US markets through UK brokers a phrase and one word comes to mind... "rip off" and in the case of the discount brokers "pathetic". I've seen reports of incompetance from a number of people about Barclays e.g. the last one was that they did not know how to asssess if an equity is ISA eligible. Of course if you're trading through and ISA we have no choice but to suffer a UK broker. If you're trading in an ordinary brokerage account i.e outside an ISA or sipp then you'd be better looking for a North American broker. I've heard Interactive Brokers are good http://www.interactivebrokers.co.uk/en/main.php one dollar purchase/sell commission for up to 100 shares. DrBubbs Fidelity for stocks and Cannacord for TSX.v stocks and perhaps Thinkorswim (T. O'Briens broker). I trade inside my ISA's ATM but considering pulling out to one of the mentioned brokers, bearing in mind we all have an annual CGT allowance of £9600. IB have been blowing hot and cold over a sipp account for a while now so that is a one to watch for the future.

 

Thanks, I seem to have become more bearish recently - just happy to trade the rallies and make fewer mistakes whilst improving my trading technique. Dr Bubb has mentioned about UK brokers being a rip-off and I agree with this - for now I'm just climbing up the ladder and learning more and more as I go along. Gone from having Halifax funds to Skipton self-selected mutual funds to dealing with funds & then shares with Hargreaves Lansdown in the space of 3 years. Ultimately, I'm sure I'll be using a US or Canadian broker if the charges are lower and I've become a seasoned trader, but I probably feel more comfortable to take the next step using a UK based broker despite the higher charges.

 

I think I need to get to a stage where I know I can trade well enough to start worrying about saving on the dealing charges - to me the most important factor seems to be getting the timing right and the trend right. I have business account with Barclays so it's one of the reasons I thought of going to them next - I like their site and the features it offers like trailing stops. We shall see, I'm with H-L (no stoploss :(:angry: ) until the 'sell in May go away' period - they've cost me a packet with their lack of a stoploss which is like climbing without a rope. Live and learn - rather know how to lose money at 39 and make it back than lose money (pension) when I'm old and not working where I'm unwilling/unable to do much about it. Still, I've always been hedged with a core position in PM's so not lost too much ;)

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