Jump to content
id5

A Short Guide To Buying Coins

Recommended Posts

No the thickness would have to be the same. It would only change if the design, diameter or weight changed as well. I think that in one advert you have the nominal thickness stated and in the other the maximum thickness. There is always a margin of error in any engineering work, people just never state it.

 

Coins are also created by being struck rather than milled or cast. If too much power is applied by the press then the outside edge of the coin is raised whilst the inside thickness reduced, if too little then the opposite affect occurs. This is another reason why a small difference in thickness is not really a problem.

 

Jeez... id5, you certainly no your stuff!

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
No the thickness would have to be the same. It would only change if the design, diameter or weight changed as well. I think that in one advert you have the nominal thickness stated and in the other the maximum thickness. There is always a margin of error in any engineering work, people just never state it.

 

Coins are also created by being struck rather than milled or cast. If too much power is applied by the press then the outside edge of the coin is raised whilst the inside thickness reduced, if too little then the opposite affect occurs. This is another reason why a small difference in thickness is not really a problem.

 

So when I measure my Eagle coin, it’s OK as long as the thickness is +/- 10% providing the diameter and weight are about right (?)

 

Thanks for your BTW guidance. I really appreciate it.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Jeez... id5, you certainly no your stuff!

 

Thanks for the compliment. I understand coins, engineering, refining, they really are pretty easy but I do wish I understood more about the vapourware of economics :(

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
So when I measure my Eagle coin, it’s OK as long as the thickness is +/- 10% providing the diameter and weight are about right (?)

 

Thanks for your BTW guidance. I really appreciate it.

 

Happy to contribute where I can.

 

The two measurements that really will not move very much are weight and diameter. For any modern bullion coin that is above EF I would start to suspect the possibility of a fake if the weight or diameter was out by more than 1%. For thickness I would be getting concerned at more than 5% error.

 

The biggest problem with silver coin is that unlike gold there are lots of replacement materials that can be used to fill the coin and the only way to prove it would to be to cut it in half but stick it on the end of your finger whilst your hand is over a pillow of something soft and tap it with a pencil, it will ring. Hit one filled with lead and it will make a different sound. If you have a coin of the same type from a reputable source then you can use this as you touchstone of what a real one should sound like.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The biggest problem with silver coin is that unlike gold there are lots of replacement materials that can be used to fill the coin and the only way to prove it would to be to cut it in half but stick it on the end of your finger whilst your hand is over a pillow of something soft and tap it with a pencil, it will ring. Hit one filled with lead and it will make a different sound. If you have a coin of the same type from a reputable source then you can use this as you touchstone of what a real one should sound like.

 

Wow! This is such an informative thread! Thanks everyone and especially id5.

 

While trawling through the web, I see that Chard says they have silver coins available (I haven't called them to confirm if this is still true)

http://24carat.co.uk/silverframe.html

 

I'd love to buy a bag of silver coins if they are still in stock but your warning is putting me off.

 

I have bought from Chard before - just the once, some 3 years ago or so when 120 gold sovereigns cost me £7K. I then bought a Fisch and checked the coins (yes I have now seen your advice to give that a miss and save my money but that post wasn't around at that time) and every one passed the test. So from past experience, it might be worth chancing it that Chard wouldn't sell duds?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Callmejoe – Chards are a very well respected and reputable dealer. You can buy with confidence.

 

===========

 

****. :angry: My Panda is 1mm too big (in diameter). It sounds like **** when I tap it. The weight is spot on. I’m really surprised I got ripped off. I got it at a coin market, there were loads of dealers there. I can’t believe the dealers sit back and let other dealers sell fake ****.

 

At least I know what a fake coin sounds like now. :rolleyes:

 

On a slightly more positive note, I also got an Eagle from ebay. It sings like a musical instrument when I tap it. The weight and diameter are within fractions of a percent of the specification. :) (I got a jewellery scale and a digital calliper from ebay too).

 

Thanks for your help id5.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
...

Thanks for your help id5.

 

No problems, just glad that I could help but now that you have heard a real coin you will know what to look for :rolleyes: feel a 100 more and you will be able to feel a fake when you touch it, once you have seen 1,000 you can spot a fake in a pile of them.

 

I am surprised that you got passed a fake at a coin fair. If you have a receipt check to see if the seller is on the list of BNTA Members ring the seller up and tell them about the problem. If they cannot or will not help then please report them to the BNTA. If there are enough reports from different sources about a member then they will be chastised or struck off.

 

....

So from past experience, it might be worth chancing it that Chard wouldn't sell duds?

 

Chards are one of the most respected dealers in the country and Lawrence has been around for a long time. I would be very surprised if they passed you a dud as all of their coins are inspected at least twice but like everyone they can make mistakes. Again, if there are problems then give them a call I am sure that they will want to sort it out as amicably as possible.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I see that Chards are asking £19.95 per 2008 silver Britannias

http://24carat.co.uk/silverbritanniasframe.html

while the Royal Mint is only wanting £16.95 each (with free p&p)

http://www.royalmint.com/PackedSets/BR08AG.aspx

 

Gee, no wonder they have silver coins available. Even at the latest exchange rate of $1.73 with a silver price supposedly at $11.80, that's one hell of premium.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
...

Gee, no wonder they have silver coins available. Even at the latest exchange rate of $1.73 with a silver price supposedly at $11.80, that's one hell of premium.

 

Chards do not offer live pricing on their website, you will need to ring them for accurate pricing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Chards do not offer live pricing on their website, you will need to ring them for accurate pricing.

 

Thanks for the heads up id5. At the moment, I've got a very big punt on a special situation. If that comes right, I'll have plenty of cash for coins.

 

BTW, if anyone is desperate to lay their hands on silver coins over in the USA, you can get them direct from First Majestic

http://www.firstmajestic.com/s/Home.asp

I understand they will not sell them for under $15 per oz (but check with the company)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

id5 just wanted to say thank you for creating this thread, I've learned a lot

 

Is there a rough figure for the margin on Silver and Gold that are paid for coins/bars at the moment?

 

What would be a good Silver/Gold ratio to have

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
id5 just wanted to say thank you for creating this thread, I've learned a lot

 

Is there a rough figure for the margin on Silver and Gold that are paid for coins/bars at the moment?

 

What would be a good Silver/Gold ratio to have

 

Gold coin is in short supply at the moment and bar is getting that way, this is resulting in positive margin on the purchase, so above spot price for a dealer to buy from you. The normal margin would be -4% to -8% so below spot for gold. The same is happening for silver. This could go anywhere from here, up, down, sideways. I would really not like to second guess which way these margins are going to go next.

 

As to ratio between gold and silver then my advice would be to read Steve's thread

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Gold coin is in short supply at the moment and bar is getting that way, this is resulting in positive margin on the purchase, so above spot price for a dealer to buy from you. The normal margin would be -4% to -8% so below spot for gold. The same is happening for silver. This could go anywhere from here, up, down, sideways. I would really not like to second guess which way these margins are going to go next.

 

As to ratio between gold and silver then my advice would be to read Steve's thread

 

Cheers ID5!

 

I'm a complete novice when it comes to Gold & Silver and I've learnt so much over the past few days. My gut is telling me that fear is starting to grow really fast now and as time goes by more of the public will be want gold and silver as an insurance against TSHTF scenarios.

 

I read Steves thread, excellent thread just like your thread.

 

Think I'll go with 30% Silver 70% Gold

 

Any advice on a good place to buy Silver at the moment? I was looking at coininvestdirect.com but I don't fancy the 17.5% VAT charge they have on silver

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Cheers ID5!

 

I'm a complete novice when it comes to Gold & Silver and I've learnt so much over the past few days. My gut is telling me that fear is starting to grow really fast now and as time goes by more of the public will be want gold and silver as an insurance against TSHTF scenarios.

 

I read Steves thread, excellent thread just like your thread.

 

Think I'll go with 30% Silver 70% Gold

 

Any advice on a good place to buy Silver at the moment? I was looking at coininvestdirect.com but I don't fancy the 17.5% VAT charge they have on silver

 

Unfortunately you cant avoid the 17.5% vat on Silver. Coininvest is the cheapest on the web for silver. The Silver Philharmonic 1oz. 2008 look to be a good buy, they where about £10.82 earlier this evening. They sell on ebay at £14+ all day long.

 

Just remember that the gold and silver market is very volitial. The market can go up as well as down and if you are buying now, its when the market is at front and centre of a lot of peoples minds. Its not a get rich quick scheme. Saying this you are buying the ulitimate insurance policy, the one and only policy that has a 4000 year track record.

 

Make sure you do all your own research and make your own decissions. Only spend money that you feel comfortable with. You can always spend more later on. Good Luck

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Unfortunately you cant avoid the 17.5% vat on Silver. Coininvest is the cheapest on the web for silver. The Silver Philharmonic 1oz. 2008 look to be a good buy, they where about £10.82 earlier this evening. They sell on ebay at £14+ all day long.

 

Just remember that the gold and silver market is very volitial. The market can go up as well as down and if you are buying now, its when the market is at front and centre of a lot of peoples minds. Its not a get rich quick scheme. Saying this you are buying the ulitimate insurance policy, the one and only policy that has a 4000 year track record.

 

Make sure you do all your own research and make your own decissions. Only spend money that you feel comfortable with. You can always spend more later on. Good Luck

 

Thanks mate, I've learnt an incredible amount over the past few days on this forum. Wish I had of joined this forum some time ago!

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I got my first gold coins delivered this week from Blanchard - a Krugerrand and a Maple.

 

The Maple looks much nicer than the Kruger but I read that pure .9999 fine gold coins, which the Maple is, are less popular than Krugerrands due to the increased risk of damage. I believe these are originally packaged in tubes containing ten coins.

 

Do the UK bullion dealers prefer to deal with gold coppoer alloy coins rather than individual pure gold coins, such as the Maple? If buying individual pure gold coins is it better to buy those that are packaged as such from the mint (like the Australian Kangaroo)?

 

Now that I have taken my first delivery, I think Krugerrands will constitute the core of my coin portfolio going forward, even if they aren't as nice. Maybe I'll get some American Eagles also.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I got my first gold coins delivered this week from Blanchard - a Krugerrand and a Maple.

 

The Maple looks much nicer than the Kruger but I read that pure .9999 fine gold coins, which the Maple is, are less popular than Krugerrands due to the increased risk of damage. I believe these are originally packaged in tubes containing ten coins.

 

Do the UK bullion dealers prefer to deal with gold coppoer alloy coins rather than individual pure gold coins, such as the Maple? If buying individual pure gold coins is it better to buy those that are packaged as such from the mint (like the Australian Kangaroo)?

 

Now that I have taken my first delivery, I think Krugerrands will constitute the core of my coin portfolio going forward, even if they aren't as nice. Maybe I'll get some American Eagles also.

 

The latest round of coin buying has seen changes in the marketing that surrounds the sale of coins. The dealers are taking advantage over the public’s misunderstanding of what a bullion coin is. The purpose of a bullion coin is for general circulation as legal tender or the coin kept until exchanged for goods or services. It has not other value apart from its gold content. Dealers have recognised that if they repackage bullion coin as if it was a fleur-de-coin proof then buyers will pay more. When the mania for coin subsides the bullion dealers will purchase bullion coin for gold content at spot + or – a percentage regardless of the packaging, its country of origin or its alloy. Numismatic dealers will pay extra for a bullion coin that has perfect packaging but they would prefer a boxed FDC proof.

 

You need to consider why you are purchasing the coin. If you want to collect coin then buy FDC proof or the best grade you can afford. If you want coin to purchase items during times of financial or country collapse then buy the cheapest above spot gold price of legal tender coin of the country you are residing in as it is easier to dispose of. If you want gold for the recovery period after financial or country collapse then buy either coin or bar for the cheapest you can over spot price.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
BTW, if anyone is desperate to lay their hands on silver coins over in the USA, you can get them direct from First Majestic

http://www.firstmajestic.com/s/Home.asp

I understand they will not sell them for under $15 per oz (but check with the company)

 

I just had a look at their website. Looks like they have been cleaned out of stock. All coins have been sold out while ingots are "Coming Soon". Every item was available a month ago.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Has anyone ever carried gold coins through customs and, if so, what is the limit? I was thinking of carrying maybe 6 1oz coins from the US to the UK at Christmas. Is it worth the hassle or is it best to 'FedEx' bullion internationally?

 

It seems that you have to declare any cash or equivalent if its value is over 10,000 USD in the US. Europe seems to have a limit of 10,000 EUR. However, I can't find any specific guidelines for carrying bullion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Has anyone ever carried gold coins through customs and, if so, what is the limit? I was thinking of carrying maybe 6 1oz coins from the US to the UK at Christmas. Is it worth the hassle or is it best to 'FedEx' bullion internationally?

 

It seems that you have to declare any cash or equivalent if its value is over 10,000 USD in the US. Europe seems to have a limit of 10,000 EUR. However, I can't find any specific guidelines for carrying bullion.

 

There will not be a problem moving the coins into the UK as it is below the money laundering limit and there are no import taxes on Krugers unlike other forms of gold. Just carry them with your loose change in a small closed wallet and just send them through the bag scanner.

 

EDIT: I thought that I had answered this question before on this site but it was on a different one, here is a fuller answer for you.

 

You can import as many gold coins as you like provided that they are Investment Coins listed in HMRC Note but you need to be aware that there is a €15,000 limit for Money Laundering, over that for personal use and you will have to prove where the money came from to purchase the coins. You will only attract attention if Customs think that you are importing more than what would be normal for you personally as a personal import. If you fly 1st class you could bring a good proportion of your baggage limit over as gold, if you fly cattle then stick to sub €15,000.

 

Silver coins from the US attracts VAT at 17.5% but no import duty any more under the EU rule R2261/98

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
...

Things could get very interesting for silver in the next 15 years or so. As you know platinum used to be a lot cheaper than gold, to the extent that fake sovereigns were made of Pt.

 

Do you know much about these fake Pt sovereigns? Do they have some sort of numismatic value these days?

 

The estimates on the number of fake platinum Sovereigns coins that are still in circulation are pretty low, in the thousands rather than the tens of thousands. The coins were a fair replica of the originals. Many of them were spotted because they were a thin layer of plated gold that would wear off on the high points of the coin showing the metal underneath. They do have a numismatic value and a collector of fakes would want one.

 

If you do have one but don’t know that it is a fake then I would not worry too much about it as it is at the moment worth about the same as the real one. Future price depends on the price of platinum and if it drops I would become more concerned about platinum being hidden in the centre of bars of gold rather than coin as they are much easier to produce and harder to spot which is why all gold is melted when it comes back into the chain of integrity that the LBMA uses.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Thanks for information ID5. I experienced no trouble carrying bullion through either US or UK airports. No questions asked.

 

Glad that it all went well for you :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was checking out Baird's website. Looks like they have coins available.

 

Their update for 5 Jan said:

"Latest stock: SOVEREIGNS (all types), 1/4 Krugers, 1/4 Brits, 1/2 Brits, 1 oz Pandas, Austrian 10cor, French/Belgian/Swiss 20fr"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×