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A Short Guide To Buying Coins

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Would I be correct in saying the weight of a florin is 11.3 grams?

 

I thought that the weights of UK silver pre-1947 were already posted on this site but I could only find them in troy oz so here they are in grams. All pre-1920 coin is .925 silver and post .500 silver

 

  • 2.8 g Sixpence post 1920
  • 3.0 g Sixpence pre 1920
  • 5.7 g Shilling
  • 7.4 g Eighteen Pence
  • 11.3 g Florin
  • 15.0 g Three Shillings
  • 14.1 g Half Crown
  • 22.6 g Four Shillings
  • 28.3g Crown

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I thought that the weights of UK silver pre-1947 were already posted on this site but I could only find them in troy oz so here they are in grams. All pre-1920 coin is .925 silver and post .500 silver

 

  • 2.8 g Sixpence post 1920
  • 3.0 g Sixpence pre 1920
  • 5.7 g Shilling
  • 7.4 g Eighteen Pence
  • 11.3 g Florin
  • 15.0 g Three Shillings
  • 14.1 g Half Crown
  • 22.6 g Four Shillings
  • 28.3g Crown

 

That's a great help (as are your other posts), thanks very much!

 

32.15 grams in a troy oz?

 

If I were to buy some old florins and were left with some after the dust settles would a scrap dealer take them and what sort of percentage value of the silver would I get?

 

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That's a great help (as are your other posts), thanks very much!

 

32.15 grams in a troy oz?

 

If I were to buy some old florins and were left with some after the dust settles would a scrap dealer take them and what sort of percentage value of the silver would I get?

 

Yes a scrap dealer would take them at spot minus whatever the market spread was at the time. Bullion dealers will also take them. ( this is only for 1 kilo plus tho, not just a handfull of coins ), also you have ebay and craigslist market places for smaller amounts.

 

Siver is Silver :D

 

Gold is Gold :D

 

The Buy / Sell spread will move with the supply and demands in the market. Look at today, you will get spot + from a lot of dealers for selling gold because of the uncertainty in the market no one is selling and everyone is buying. But when everyone wants to sell they will only give you spot minus.

 

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Yes a scrap dealer would take them at spot minus whatever the market spread was at the time. Bullion dealers will also take them. ( this is only for 1 kilo plus tho, not just a handfull of coins ), also you have ebay and craigslist market places for smaller amounts.

 

Siver is Silver :D

 

Gold is Gold :D

 

The Buy / Sell spread will move with the supply and demands in the market. Look at today, you will get spot + from a lot of dealers for selling gold because of the uncertainty in the market no one is selling and everyone is buying. But when everyone wants to sell they will only give you spot minus.

 

Great, that explains it nicely, thanks.

 

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Does anyone know (as a guide) how much gold and silver there actually is per person in the world today? I once heard that there was approximately 2oz’s of gold per head. But I’m not to sure if this is true.

Interesting question. If you have an ounce of gold you're richer than average and an ounce of silver makes you a freak!

 

Gold ever mined: 158,000,000,000g (end of 2006 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold#cite_ref-14)

People on earth: 6,000,000,000 (or more)

Grams/person: 26.333

 

Silver: 300,000,000 ounces (excluding the <5% that's left in the ground and the stuff that's in landfill) for 6,000,000,000 people.

http://www.monex.com/prods/silver.html

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That's a great help (as are your other posts), thanks very much!

 

32.15 grams in a troy oz?

 

If I were to buy some old florins and were left with some after the dust settles would a scrap dealer take them and what sort of percentage value of the silver would I get?

Nearly, a troy ounce is 31.1 grams but you can ignore this for old UK coin silver as the dealers will buy it off you for the face value of the coin regardless of its weight, they just add a multiplier to the face value of the coin for example, Four crowns, a florin and a sixpence from pre-1947 weighs 127g and contains 63g of silver but has a face value of £1 2s 6d which is equal to £1.12p, they will always round down. The average multiplier for today is 11 so you will get £12.32 although some dealers will give you more some less but they don’t need to know the weight just the multiplier for that day.

 

Spot price would be about £7.10 per ounce so you would have thought that you would get 2x spot or £14.20 but the cost of refining silver is quite high compared to gold hence the increased margin.

 

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Nearly, a troy ounce is 31.1 grams but you can ignore this for old UK coin silver as the dealers will buy it off you for the face value of the coin regardless of its weight, they just add a multiplier to the face value of the coin for example, Four crowns, a florin and a sixpence from pre-1947 weighs 127g and contains 63g of silver but has a face value of £1 2s 6d which is equal to £1.12p, they will always round down. The average multiplier for today is 11 so you will get £12.32 although some dealers will give you more some less but they don’t need to know the weight just the multiplier for that day.

 

Spot price would be about £7.10 per ounce so you would have thought that you would get 2x spot or £14.20 but the cost of refining silver is quite high compared to gold hence the increased margin.

 

So I take it there are two multipliers, one for the pre 1947 and another for the pre 1920 coins?

 

I'm obviously trying to find a suitable method to establish the current scrap value for different coins, which of course will only be an approximation because of the volatilty of the spot (especially under the present economic climate).

 

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So I take it there are two multipliers, one for the pre 1947 and another for the pre 1920 coins?

 

I'm obviously trying to find a suitable method to establish the current scrap value for different coins, which of course will only be an approximation because of the volatilty of the spot (especially under the present economic climate).

 

Yes, there are two multipliers but they both relate to spot price but it also changes with supply and demand.

 

There is no simple answer to your quest for a suitable method to work out the value of your silver, coin, bullion or tableware. It really is very driven by supply and demand. Even for stock valuation purposes I would never go beyond 80% of spot as that is what you would achieve in a fire sale but the reality is if you pick you time and place of sale you could well achieve spot + 50%. I know this sounds mad but it is true, just take a look at 1KG bullion bars at the moment.

 

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Yes, there are two multipliers but they both relate to spot price but it also changes with supply and demand.

 

There is no simple answer to your quest for a suitable method to work out the value of your silver, coin, bullion or tableware. It really is very driven by supply and demand. Even for stock valuation purposes I would never go beyond 80% of spot as that is what you would achieve in a fire sale but the reality is if you pick you time and place of sale you could well achieve spot + 50%. I know this sounds mad but it is true, just take a look at 1KG bullion bars at the moment.

 

It's an interesting subject, would I be correct in saying to able to correctly value coins of this nature comes from experience of actually being in the market or at least an active observer for sometime? Or could someone sitting at home on a computer get a feel for the market fairly quickly and if so, what would be the best indicators to be looking at?

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It's an interesting subject, would I be correct in saying to able to correctly value coins of this nature comes from experience of actually being in the market or at least an active observer for sometime? Or could someone sitting at home on a computer get a feel for the market fairly quickly and if so, what would be the best indicators to be looking at?

 

Before the credit crisis there haven’t really been any major fluctuations with the bullion coin market since the eighties and the last gold spike, prices just drifted with inflation just like everything else. The operation of the dealers remains the same except now a permanent eye is firmly fixed on the price of bullion. Demand .vs. supply is the current problem hence the changes in spread.

 

I do not see any reason why you cannot get a feel for the bullion coin market place from sitting at home on a computer especially now that most of the main bullion dealers have online facilities. You can plot the buy and sell price of coin from ATS, Bairds, Coin Invest, Hatton Garden, Weighton, and some of the auction sites like Fellow & Sons & Spinks. I am sure that you will soon have a handle on it.

 

If you want to learn about numismatic coin then the best place to start would be at COINEX at Earl’s Court on September 26th & 27th or go and talk to your local dealer, you will find them in http://www.bnta.net

 

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In the post http://www.greenenergyinvestors.com/index....ost&p=61381 Tazer ask if Sovereigns were really CGT free and this is the answer.

 

All Sterling coin ("Legal Tender") is not a chargeable asset under the Taxation of Chargeable Gains Act 1992 Section 21 (1) All forms of property shall be assets for the purposes of this Act, whether situated in the United Kingdom or not, including ...( b ) any currency other than sterling, and ( c ) any form or property...

 

It does not matter if you own 1 or 1,000

 

What is Sterling coin or "Legal Tender" is a bit more confusing as all coins before the Coinage Act 1870 are within the prerogative of the Crown and everything else is covered by Parliamentary Coinage and Currency Acts. Basically everything before 1969 is no longer legal tender and can be melted down anything after cannot. Gold coins are treated separately in the different Coinage and Currency Acts and this makes all gold coins minted after 1837 legal tender and illegal to melt down.

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Thanks for all the great information id5, with that and a little bit of research I should be able to discern what is and is n't a bargain. I don't have any aspirations to get into numismatics I'm just interested in buying some old British pre 1947 coins for the reason stated in my first post here but thanks for the link anyway. I noticed a kilo of florins went for £147.50 on ebay yesterday which to an untrained eye seems to be a bit expensive.

 

I was aware of the exemption of CGT with regard to sovereigns and the like, I have a few of them already but consider them a bit too cumbersome to use as money should we be faced with a worst case scenario.

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...

I noticed a kilo of florins went for £147.50 on ebay yesterday which to an untrained eye seems to be a bit expensive.

...

 

I keep on seeing these bags of coin for offer and I keep on thinking that is seems high but then if silver is to follow gold upwards then they buyer is just paying a premium for something that they could sell at a profit later. If silver does not follow gold then they will sell them at a loss. The current dealer purchase price for 1KG would be just over £100, so approximately a 45% premium. Looking at today’s price of a silver 1oz Maple from CoinInvestDirect you have a sell price of £12.56 and a buy price of £8.75 so a premium of approximately 43%.

 

So what would be better, if the SHTF then in the UK it would be the 1KG bag as the coin would be instantly recognisable whereas the bullion coin would more than likely need to be changed into something else before you could purchase with it. But as an investment or once life had returned to normal then the bullion coin would be the best buy as the dealers purchase price would be higher as requires no refining to be used in industry or if resold but the 1KG bag would.

 

So my advice to all would be to buy the correct tool for the job that you need the tool for.

 

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Newbie here looking to invest moderately heavily in gold to protect myself from some of the coming chaos.

 

Looked at ATS Bullion in the Savoy in London - seem reputable but difficult to find reviews online about "shopping" experience. Any views on here?

 

I'm also curious as to the "best" gold to buy. The debate between bars and coins is interesting but for my purposes does it matter? I think I only care about the buy/sell spread at the dealer and getting the 4x9s gold at the best price. From my research this seems to be US Eagles.

 

I'm UK based and want to stay under the inland revenue's radar (therefore just £5k for me, £5k for my wife initially).

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Newbie here looking to invest moderately heavily in gold to protect myself from some of the coming chaos.

 

Looked at ATS Bullion in the Savoy in London - seem reputable but difficult to find reviews online about "shopping" experience. Any views on here?

 

I'm also curious as to the "best" gold to buy. The debate between bars and coins is interesting but for my purposes does it matter? I think I only care about the buy/sell spread at the dealer and getting the 4x9s gold at the best price. From my research this seems to be US Eagles.

 

I'm UK based and want to stay under the inland revenue's radar (therefore just £5k for me, £5k for my wife initially).

 

The best guide as to what to buy is to answer the question how are you going to sell them. Have a read of Steve's thread to make up your mind on buying either coin or bar. Steve's Thread don't forget that spreads do change over time.

 

Any of the big dealers would be a good place to purchase, they are all very friendly especially when they are selling to you :lol:

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The best guide as to what to buy is to answer the question how are you going to sell them. Have a read of Steve's thread to make up your mind on buying either coin or bar. Steve's Thread don't forget that spreads do change over time.

 

Any of the big dealers would be a good place to purchase, they are all very friendly especially when they are selling to you :lol:

 

Thank you. After a flurry of research I loaded up on krugers (non-vintage) this afternoon. Expecting to take a 20% hit over the coming weeks but a risk premium worth taking to secure the physical asset in case something unexpected blows up this week.

 

Yay - I like shiny stuff :)

 

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Thank you. After a flurry of research I loaded up on krugers (non-vintage) this afternoon. Expecting to take a 20% hit over the coming weeks but a risk premium worth taking to secure the physical asset in case something unexpected blows up this week.

 

Yay - I like shiny stuff :)

 

Did you use ATS ?

 

If you did, can you confirm this article

 

;)

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2008/oc...nking.economics

 

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Did you use ATS ?

 

If you did, can you confirm this article

 

;)

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2008/oc...nking.economics

 

Parts of it:

- they were busy

- signin book was chocker

- I had to wait in a Q

 

...but I don't see the coins going for less than spot value of the gold content.

 

But I'm a newbie so may have missed something.

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...but I don't see the coins going for less than spot value of the gold content.

 

But I'm a newbie so may have missed something.

 

I wouldn't pay much attention to that, I've never seen a gold coin being sold by a professional dealer for less than spot price. and trust me if I did, then I would have bought it myself.

 

But I got to admit, £547 for a 1oz Krugger when the spot price is around (lets say for arguments sake) $900 per oz, with the dollar rate in the region of 1.8....... I bet they are raking it in. I'm tempted to give them a ring to see how they are willing to purchase for. I bet they still offer less than spot.

 

The paper/physical disconnection is getting really stupid now.

 

 

 

 

 

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I wouldn't pay much attention to that, I've never seen a gold coin being sold by a professional dealer for less than spot price. and trust me if I did, then I would have bought it myself.

 

But I got to admit, £547 for a 1oz Krugger when the spot price is around (lets say for arguments sake) $900 per oz, with the dollar rate in the region of 1.8....... I bet they are raking it in. I'm tempted to give them a ring to see how they are willing to purchase for. I bet they still offer less than spot.

 

The paper/physical disconnection is getting really stupid now.

 

When I bought last week ATS were selling at £540 and buying at £499.

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I wouldn't pay much attention to that, I've never seen a gold coin being sold by a professional dealer for less than spot price. and trust me if I did, then I would have bought it myself.

 

But I got to admit, £547 for a 1oz Krugger when the spot price is around (lets say for arguments sake) $900 per oz, with the dollar rate in the region of 1.8....... I bet they are raking it in. I'm tempted to give them a ring to see how they are willing to purchase for. I bet they still offer less than spot.

 

The paper/physical disconnection is getting really stupid now.

2-4% below spot IIrc and thats Brittanias.and sovs.

 

I was on the phone so I could not see if the bloke had a hook for a hand and parrot on his shoulder..

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I’ve spent hours looking for the thicknesses of coins. I’ve managed to find some. I though others' may find this useful

 

Silver Eagle:

 

Diameter – 40.6mm

Thickness – 3.1mm

Weight – 31.103g

 

2008usa1dollarsilverproofcertificateobv400.jpg

 

http://24carat.co.uk/frame.php?url=2008use...llioncoins.html

 

Silver Philharmonic:

 

Diameter –37mm

Thickness – 3.2mm

Weight – 31.103g

 

http://austrian-mint.at/silberphil_daten?l=en

 

 

I’m still looking for Silver Britannia and Silver Panda if anyone can help

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...

I’m still looking for Silver Britannia and Silver Panda if anyone can help

 

Annoying that they do not provide the detail, the reason is that they change the design on the faces and that affects the thickness unlike the Maple for instance where the design does not change from year to year. That said I still think that they could and should produce the specifications for each design.

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I've found another 2008 silver eagle. I’m a bit confused now. Is it possible that the proof and uncirculated have different thickness?

 

Silver Eagle 2008 (uncirculated):

 

Diameter – 40.6mm

Thickness – 2.98mm

Weight – 31.103g

 

c7361wn9.jpg

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I've found another 2008 silver eagle. I’m a bit confused now. Is it possible that the proof and uncirculated have different thickness?

 

...

 

No the thickness would have to be the same. It would only change if the design, diameter or weight changed as well. I think that in one advert you have the nominal thickness stated and in the other the maximum thickness. There is always a margin of error in any engineering work, people just never state it.

 

Coins are also created by being struck rather than milled or cast. If too much power is applied by the press then the outside edge of the coin is raised whilst the inside thickness reduced, if too little then the opposite affect occurs. This is another reason why a small difference in thickness is not really a problem.

 

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