Jump to content

Recommended Posts

wren comments made me think about this. I know there are those who think this is just crazy talk. Survivalists, ha, idiots !

Well, the probability may be small, but the consequences would be dire. And for those living in a country prone to earthquakes we are often warned to set up a survival kit so we can get by if the worst happens, because for the first few days there may not be anyone available to help.

 

As you can see from what happened in China recently, having at least enough food and water to survive for a while is potentially life saving.

 

So this covers two potential risks, earthquakes, and economic problems leading to food shortages etc.

 

I've had an interesting time looking for food items.

 

I think things to look for are:

1. Things you'd normally eat, so they won't be wasted when they get close to expiring.

2. Things that have a long shelf life.

3. Things that would survive an earthquake. Like tins.

4. A variety of foods. Meat, vegetables, fruit, carbohydrates, nuts, vitamins/minerals etc.

5. Things that don't need cooking, so you can eat those at the start until you're better set up.

 

Here are some things we've bought:

 

Tins of Tuna, Soup (with meat), Spaghetti, Baked Beans:

TunaSoupSpaghettiBeans.jpg

 

Tins of Tomatoes and Beetroot:

TomatoesBeetroot.jpg

 

Tins of Pears, Pineapple, Peaches, Rice Pudding:

PearsPinapplePeachesRicePudding.jpg

 

Marmite:

Marmite.jpg

 

Nuts:

PeanutsCashewNuts.jpg

 

Cola (which is also very good if you get food poisoning - just flatten it before drinking):

Cola.jpg

 

Spaghetti:

Spaghetti.jpg

 

Oats and Rise:

OatsRice.jpg

 

What do you think ?

Your suggestions would be welcome.

I'll add to this as I add things to the kit.

 

An obvious question is, how much and in what proportions would a family need ?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
What do you think ?

Your suggestions would be welcome.

I'll add to this as I add things to the kit.

 

An obvious question is, how much and in what proportions would a family need ?

A food storage calculator for families:

http://lds.about.com/library/bl/faq/blcalculator.htm

(I just assume 2000 calories a day per adult, as I'm single).

 

A couple of threads on this at peakoil.com. A recent one:

http://www.peakoil.com/fortopic39690.html

And their main one on food storage (25 pages, I haven't read it yet):

http://www.peakoil.com/fortopic106.html

 

Even without major disasters a simple truckers' strike can mean shops are running out of stuff within a week (especially if people panic buy). So you don't need to be a survival nut to make sensible storage plans.

 

You should worry about water also.

 

An electricity power cut can mean the water pressure goes down and then off within 24 hours. So some means to stock enough drinking and cooking water for at least a few days is important.

 

I'm planning to make a stock of food and hygiene products sufficient for at least 6 months, although I'll build it up slowly over a few months (just some extra stuff every week).

 

For water all I can do is a few days worth.

 

Does New Zealand get earthquakes?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks wren. Lots more for me to read :D

And more to think about.

 

You're kidding about earthquakes right ? :D

 

NZ is on a major tectonic fault. The shaky isle.

This gives you an idea:

 

NZ_Earthquakes.jpg

 

NZ_Large_Earthquakes.gif

 

:blink:

 

At least down here in Christchurch we're not sat on a volcano like Auckland, or on 4x faults like in Wellington :blink: :blink: :lol: :lol:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
At least down here in Christchurch we're not sat on a volcano like Auckland, or on 4x faults like in Wellington :blink: :blink: :lol: :lol:

Yeah, when I thought about it being in the South Pacific. But I don't remember news reports of bad earthquake disasters from New Zealand. :unsure:

Looks quite bad from that map, though. So it makes sense to fully be prepared in New Zealand even without economic worries.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Peter Schiff has also been talking about stocking up on supplies as a way to protect from inflation. Last year I spent a few hundred pounds in a cash and carry buying essential everyday items that take up small amounts of space. Its been a good investment so far, having this stuff stock piled means I don't have to pay over the odds at a local shop if I were to run out, and I don't have to go into a super market just to buy a tube of toothpaste which usually results in me spending more cash on things I don't need.

 

Since I stock piled these items I find I don't have to go shopping anywhere near as much and when I do the final bill is much lower because I already have the high value items at home. Buying in bulk also gave me a much better price on these goods.

 

 

soap

toothpaste

shaving foam razors

washing up powder

shampoo

 

I do the same with some food items, I have about 100 tins of tuna stashed away, not because I am expecting a nuclear war, its just that I want to protect my wealth from price spikes caused by shortages that could be due to the uncertainty ahead in term of geo-politics, energy, climate, industrial action and the economy. I started to plan a more financially independent lifestyle last year and installed a solid fuel burner to lower my gas bills. I also began making home made wine and beer which has been very successful and I am planning on growing some food later this year. I think I will get a bread making machine and ingredients as when ever people hear about a potential oil price spike or sever weather threat they always buy all the bread at the supermarkets.

 

Dried peas

Dried beans

Bread making ingredients

Powdered milk

Tuna tins

Tin opener

Basic tools or multi tool

Firelighters, matches, lighters

Water purification tablets/ Hydrogen peroxide (oxy plus)

Torch/radio wind up

Vitamins

First aid kit

Beer and wine making kits

Seeds for various garden vegetables

coal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I ll add; air riffle / cross bow - useful for hunting for food, and lessens the need for refrigeration / worries over long term food storage [which could fail too].

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Dont forget the tinfoil hat ! = Have insurance, hope you never need it.

 

What a brilliant picture :D :D

 

It's actually quite apt for where we live :blink:

The Canterbury plain is rather flat, and there are hills to 'run to' :unsure:

 

I'm going to be acting on all the info so far on this thread :D

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How long can you store canned foods?

 

My partner studued physics at Oxford, and thinks she knows something of food.

She refuses to eat canned foods, but I reckon she would change her mind if she was starving

 

By the way, my first very bad attack of gout came after eating a can of spinach- never again

 

Dont forget the tinfoil hat ! = Have insurance, hope you never need it.

 

The GlobalEdgers will be surfing that wave !

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
How long can you store canned foods?

 

My partner studued physics at Oxford, and thinks she knows something of food.

She refuses to eat canned foods, but I reckon she would change her mind if she was starving

 

By the way, my first very bad attack of gout came after eating a can of spinach- never again

 

 

 

The GlobalEdgers will be surfing that wave !

 

It was a slightly surreal experience walking around the supermarket as normal, but instead of doing the normal shopping, looking for only survival products.

Looking for things that can be eaten without heating, that have either long use by dates or none at all.

I noticed with interest that the tinned things were I think the only things with no use by date. So I think the answer is "a very long time".

And my intention is to try to buy things we'd normally buy and so gradually update them. Most things should last at least 2 years, so plenty of time.

 

It was also interesting doing this while seeing people going about their usual weekly shop.

 

We're currently up in goldbug territory, but are moving slightly towards the Tin Foil Hat Crew hill :D

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I remember tinned foods run the risk of developing bacterial secretions/poisons - botulism

 

 

 

Please read http://www.ext.colostate.edu/pubs/foodnut/09305.html

 

 

Before using home-canned food, critically examine the product and container. A bulging lid or leaking jar are signs of spoilage. When you open the jar, look for other signs of spoilage such as spurting liquid, an off odor or mold.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I ll add fishing line - if you cant get work/unemployed, useful to pass the time.

 

I know an old man who still works part time as a cleaner, does not have a lot of income or pension, and spends the rest of his time fishing and saves a lot on his food bill that way.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I suppose having a survival kit depends on where you live or your outlook on life. If you live in a place that is prone to natural disasters then it makes sense, assuming you can afford it, to have a stockpile of food to help you get through it if it happens. Not sure about the survivalist approach in the event of economic or social breakdown. If this were to happen and you have got something that others want, it is best that you keep it to yourself.

 

However, it does make sense to have a stockpile of some essentials. I was in my local Tesco the other day and saw that they had their own brand sardines at 17p a can and tuna at 37p (but the price moves between 31 and 37). Now, these may not be to everyone's taste but there is 20g of protein in the sardines and about 35g in the tuna. One each of these a day, in the event of an emergency will keep you alive, at least in terms of giving you enough protein to get by on. A hundred tins of each would cost you about £50 and give you about 3 months supply. As for the essentials, you can always stock powdered milk (this assumes a supply of water is available)and instead of bread, biscuits.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
soap

toothpaste

shaving foam razors

washing up powder

shampoo

 

I also began making home made wine and beer which has been very successful and I am planning on growing some food later this year. I think I will get a bread making machine and ingredients as when ever people hear about a potential oil price spike or sever weather threat they always buy all the bread at the supermarkets.

 

Dried peas

Dried beans

Bread making ingredients

Powdered milk

Tuna tins

Tin opener

Basic tools or multi tool

Firelighters, matches, lighters

Water purification tablets/ Hydrogen peroxide (oxy plus)

Torch/radio wind up

Vitamins

First aid kit

Beer and wine making kits

Seeds for various garden vegetables

coal

Toilet paper! Don't forget toilet paper. The summer before last we had a pulp-mill strike and by week 3 toilet paper of good quality was getting a bit precious. They even started importing it, here to the land of forest and paper!

 

(Talking about shortages in Finland, here's a funny one. Several years ago in December there was a shortage of Christmas trees! They had to import them from Holland! :lol:

Finland is 76% forest, mostly conifers, but the small farmers didn't bother harvesting enough Christmas trees as in previous years as the prices were so poor.)

 

A few years ago I learnt how to bake my own bread. Easy, cheap and tasty when it's fresh out of the oven with margarine. Margarine is another thing which can be stored fairly long-term and is packed with calories, as it's mostly fat.

 

Bisciuts are also jam-packed with calories, being basically fat and carbohydrate.

 

One foodstuff which has not increased so much in price here is sugar. So that's another one to stock up on as a hedge against inflation (no use-by date on the pack, I guess it keeps so long as it's dry.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I knew someone would say that :lol:

In Finland there are some English guys who would kill for jar of marmite! :D

(Almost impossible to find in the shops.)

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I suppose having a survival kit depends on where you live or your outlook on life. If you live in a place that is prone to natural disasters then it makes sense, assuming you can afford it, to have a stockpile of food to help you get through it if it happens. Not sure about the survivalist approach in the event of economic or social breakdown. If this were to happen and you have got something that others want, it is best that you keep it to yourself.

 

I remember the UK fuel protests in 2000 and the way a simple blockade of a several fuel installations basically shut the country down. Since 2000 the UK become far more dependent on the petroleum infrastructure, almost everybody I know now has at least one car, the local shops have mostly disappeared, even small local supermarkets and hardware stores have been closed in favor of edge of town giant superstores that are only accessible by people with cars.

 

This just in time delivery system of minimal inventory is like driving a car without a spare wheel, it works perfectly until you blow out a tyre. How long would the stocks would last at a local shop in the event of a prolonged fuel strike, power cut or disruption to the water supply?

 

In see the lorry drivers and fuel infrastructure workers as the people who have real effective power over the government. They have the ability to shut the country down in the way that the miners could during the 70s. The thing I wonder is will a future government have to take on the lorry drivers in the way that the conservatives took on the miners in the 80s. I think that the public will have more empathy with the lorry drivers as they share their addiction to cheap oil.

 

Tin foil hats? best get em now, the price of tin will continue to rise along with the rest of the metals. I have my special sun-glasses to help shield my eyes from the propaganda.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Px3nBTLZCQ

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I remember the UK fuel protests in 2000 and the way a simple blockade of a several fuel installations basically shut the country down. Since 2000 the UK become far more dependent on the petroleum infrastructure, almost everybody I know now has at least one car, the local shops have mostly disappeared, even small local supermarkets and hardware stores have been closed in favor of edge of town giant superstores that are only accessible by people with cars.

 

This just in time delivery system of minimal inventory is like driving a car without a spare wheel, it works perfectly until you blow out a tyre. How long would the stocks would last at a local shop in the event of a prolonged fuel strike, power cut or disruption to the water supply?

 

In see the lorry drivers and fuel infrastructure workers as the people who have real effective power over the government. They have the ability to shut the country down in the way that the miners could during the 70s. The thing I wonder is will a future government have to take on the lorry drivers in the way that the conservatives took on the miners in the 80s. I think that the public will have more empathy with the lorry drivers as they share their addiction to cheap oil.

 

Tin foil hats? best get em now, the price of tin will continue to rise along with the rest of the metals. I have my special sun-glasses to help shield my eyes from the propaganda.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Px3nBTLZCQ

 

I think people don't realise how fragile their lives are. They just assume they will be able to drive down to the supermarket and buy what they want.

 

That's one hell of a vid there !

 

"Obey"

"This is your God"

 

And http://prisonplanet.com/ is an interesting website for news.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
"Obey"

"This is your God"

 

And http://prisonplanet.com/ is an interesting website for news.

 

Yep John Carpenters 'They Live' is an at times an interesting all though slightly crap film commenting about the rampant consumerism of the 80s, despite the greatest fight scene of all time paid homage to by south park, yet I feel that prison planet is although an interesting site full of all sorts of some good and credible information but the site is overwhelmed by conspiracy theories that have little credibility and reflect badly upon the site owners.

 

I sometimes wonder if the main active contributers to the prison planet site 9/11 vids are not average Internet users or true believers but a funded unit of the CIA to undermine the credibility of the peak oil movement in the way that the whole UFO disinformation smoke screen was used to hide 70s stealth aircraft technology. Although I must admit that my tinfoil hat has been missing for quite some time and I suspect the reptilians of some kind of hat depriving species of-hat foiling to their own home planet where tin foil hats are the currency.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's interesting that you should say that.

 

One item I noticed on there:

 

http://www.runyourcarwithwater.com

 

I'm having trouble working out how the engine powered by petrol and HHO charges the battery, which then splits water into HHO which is then added to the fuel, which drives the engine........manages greater than 100% efficiency :unsure:

 

I did like the advert system though.

 

LiveFaceOnTheWeb_Rachel.jpg

 

"Live Face On Web" http://www.livefaceonweb.com

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
It's interesting that you should say that.

 

One item I noticed on there:

 

http://www.runyourcarwithwater.com

 

I'm having trouble working out how the engine powered by petrol and HHO charges the battery, which then splits water into HHO which is then added to the fuel, which drives the engine........manages greater than 100% efficiency :unsure:

 

I did like the advert system though.

 

LiveFaceOnTheWeb_Rachel.jpg

 

"Live Face On Web" http://www.livefaceonweb.com

 

I hope my theory about prison planted does not come across as an attack on the all posters and contributers there. I am sure that the majority have the best intentions at heart for freedom in America and the world, just I feel that we here at GEI see movements in the market due to economic polices, trade imbalances and geo-political issues whereas at time the prison planet crowd seem a little to eager to blame an event on a conspiracy rather than look at what is the underlying cause of the event.

 

The Hydrogen powered car advert for 'runyourcaronwater' is quite funny. it is entirely possible to do as long as you change the basic fundamental laws of physics. I had an argument with someone I know over this recently so I had to spend some time looking up how this works(or rather does not work) because obviously in these sort of situations the onus is not on the person making the claim to provide any evidence of how it works.

 

We probably all have an understanding of how a hydrogen powered car works its not done by replacing the oil with hydrogen its powered by a hydrogen fuel cell. More info here

 

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/fuel-cell.htm

 

First of all hydrogen is an energy carrier not an energy source.

 

You can make hydrogen from electrolysis's of water this has been know about for over 100 years as water contains hydrogen all you have to do is separate the hydrogen from the oxygen simple enough, problem is that it takes at best twice as much electrical energy to get hydrogen from water than the energy you can get out the hydrogen you have extracted.

 

The runyourcaronwater uses a normal car engine and the electricity created by the car engine to carry out electrolysis in a small jar with a coiled wire inside. This does create an incredibly small amount of hydrogen with they demonstrate by showing you bubbles and setting alight to them when they reach the surface.

 

When you explain this to the average numpty their response is usually along the lines of 'ooh but what IF you could get as much energy from the hydrogen as you used to create it'

 

Which is a bit like saying i use a hammer to break an egg, but if I could increase the mass of this feather to the weight of a hammer then I could use feather to break an egg and it would be easier to lift than the hammer because the feather doesn't weight as much, of course they would never understand that if you increase the mass the feather by making it heavier than it would be just as heavy as the hammer so no advantage because the same energy is expended.

 

The thing about the runyoucaronhydrogen is that you use more energy creating the hydrogen than you get back from the process, it would be better to use the electricity to power a electric motor and use that to help power your car and it would be equally useless.

 

How many generators hooked up to the runyourcaronwater jam jars would you need to run a generator on the amount of hydrogen created. A bit like saying how many generators would it take to create enough electricity to run a generator.

 

They are not counting the energy expended to create the energy like using a wind up spring powered car and saying 'hey look free energy why don't we all use spring powered cars' because they are not counting the energy expended on winding up the spring.

 

Still it may be a good investment to have shares in the company as lots of people are falling for it, best way to make cash in a gold rush is sell pick axes and shoves and books about prospecting gold.

 

I just don't think I will be getting a runyourcaronwater jam jar for my survival kit.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, but what did you think of the advert ? :lol:

 

I'm glad I'm not the only one who spotted the basic physics :D

 

And yes, hydrogen is an energy carrier. I do wish people would remember you need energy to create it when talking about better sources of energy for cars.

 

---------------

 

PS Don't forget a can opener :D

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Yeah, but what did you think of the advert ? :lol:

 

dont buy this stuff.

to split water and get oxygen and hydrogen you must spend energy. This energy will be obtained from your battery and generator, and for them to work you have to drive your car, so part of the energy the engine is producing will be spend on generating electricity to split water, that and at the end you will lose more fuel. Spliting water is a process of a very very high cost. You can't fool the physics, but you can fool the human brain, thats what those guys are selling.

I remember watching a film, where the sicentists were saying that if you dry gasoline (ie remove all the water from it) the fuel wont burn. This makes me think you could improve mileage just adding water to gasoline.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


×