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ART thread: A long term investment? Or short punt?

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...Dr B, ur a decent dude but there ain't no charts for art.

 

Amongst billionaires (not lowly millionaires, like myself), ART investing seems to be about getting attention for being rich (by splashing out at auctions), and about collecting brand names. Consequently, it is a wonderful place to observe the psychology and confidence amongst the ultra-rich.

 

Like you, and others here, I personally collect what appeals to me, and what I can afford (spending up to hk$10,000 per work of art.) But the fantasy is still there: maybe I can identify an artist early in his career, whose work may one day get caught in that tornado of greed, hype, and conspicuous consumption that is the art auction market.

 

Meantime, I will ry to understand the cycles in that top end, brand name art. And maybe one day, it will get cheap enough that I will want to buy some.

 

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Anyone a subscriber to Artnet? Am curious as to current prices on Harrison originals, I did hear about £35k for a commission some 15 years ago.

 

http://www.artnet.com/Artists/LotDetailPag...D4D5A72F7998172

 

My brother does some low level investing. For poor artist friends he pays for their materials plus a decent bit over and gets one of their works to hang on his walls. Can be funny, male artist who has been living alone in an isolated place for a few years. Large tree with a circle of flowers either side of the trunk.

 

 

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Will the HK INT'L ART FAIR boost the local Art scene ?

==================

 

website: http://www.HongKongArtFair.com

 

The SCMP seems to think so... or at least they are willing to help it along with sveral articles promoting the event.

 

INTERESTING POINTS:

 

+ HK is the only "world city" not to have a contemporary art museum

+ Even so, based on auction sales, HK is the third largest art market, after London and New York

+ Zero taxes for art beng imported or exported through HK, so this may be a good place to build a bigger market

 

+ The local interest in art is rising as HK becomes more wealthy, and people acquire more living space.

+ Some wealth comparisons, and a forecast (from the Economist Intelligence unit)..

 

MILLIONAIRES, PERCENTAGE OF HOUSEHOLDS, with US$ 1million Net Worth

City/Country== : ( 2007 ) : ( 2017)

Hong Kong........ : 26.4 % ... 39.4%

Singapore......... : 23.3 % ... 40.7 %

Switzerland....... : 22.3 % ... 28.1 %

Denmark.......... : 17.9 % ... 21.7 %

Britain.............. : 15.6 % ... 18.9 %

Ireland............. : 14.8 % ... 17.7 %

United States.... : 14.7 % ... 24.3 % (is this jump likely?)

 

(Above from an article in today's SCMP by Jake van der Kamp, who wonders about the accurancy of the forecasts when it comes to future appreciation of property values, and future exchange rates. I wonder if they have captured the deterioration of wealth that is going on now in the US, the UK and Ireland due to the current housing bust. At the end of 2007, I forecast that this would be a huge theme for 2008, and so it is. I do agree that the relative climb in Asia over the next 10 years is a very good bet, as HK and Singapore, widen their leads in having the wealthiest populations. That should be good for the art markets in the two cities.)

 

http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/8674/fe...e2748413qx8.jpg

((Feng Mengbo))

 

When?: May 14 -18; time 11am-7pm / May 14th: preview, by invitation only

Where? HK Convention and Exhibition Centre, Wanchai

What? : "The most significant art fair in Hong Kong in a decade"

Cost ?: HK$150 per person

To see: 102 galleries exhibiting 850 artists from more than 20 countries.

Western artists: Picasso, Andy Warhol, Keith Haring, and Francis Bacon

Eastern artists: Feng Mangbo, Zhang Xiaogang, Xu Bing, and a range of HK artists

 

== ==

 

ECONOMY

• Hong Kong remains the world’s freest economy. Hong Kong is followed by Singapore, with New Zealand, Switzerland and the United States tying for third (Economic Freedom of the World: 2006 Annual Report – Cato Institute).

 

• Hong Kong is the largest venture capital centre in Asia, managing 29% of the total capital pool in the region. As of June 2006, there were 185 Hong Kong-based funds with capital under management amounting to US$40 billion (Hong Kong Trade Development Council).

 

• Hong Kong was Asia’s second largest destination for foreign direct investment (FDI) in 2005. On a global scale Hong Kong ranked sixth (UNCTAD World Investment Report 2006).

 

• Hong Kong is the world’s 11th largest Trading Economy.

 

• Hong Kong is the largest source of overseas direct investment in the Chinese mainland (Hong Kong Trade Development Council).

 

PRIVATE WEALTH

The Asia-Pacific region contains 27.1% of the global high net worth individual wealth (Asia Pacific Wealth Report 2006 – Gemini / Merrill Lynch)

 

• 5.4% of those high net worth individuals live in Hong Kong with a combined wealth of US$410 billion with an average net worth of US$5.3 million. Hong Kong leads the region showing the highest average wealth per high net worth individual.

 

• High net worth individuals in Hong Kong are recognised as being the most sophisticated investors in the region. (Cap Gemini/Merrill Lynch Relationship Manager Survey 2006, Cap Gemini/Merrill Lynch Asia-Pacific Financial Advisory Survery 2006).

 

• Hong Kong’s wealthy are geographically clustered. In an area of just 423 sq miles there are over 88,000 high net worth individuals.

 

• The combined wealth of the 40 richest Hong Kong and Taiwan citizens rose by US$28 billion from 2006 to $154 billion in 2007 (Forbes Magazine).

 

 

For further details please see the Hong Kong Trade Development Council website

 

Galleries in both Hong Kong and mainland China are reporting increased sales to Asian collectors, whose interest has been stimulated by the investment potential of the international art market. The market for Contemporary Asian Art is strong and, contrary to popular belief, buyers from the region are playing an increasingly important role in developing this market - 76 % of the buyers in the April sale of Chinese Contemporary Art at Sotheby’s Hong Kong were from Asia.

 

Hong Kong’s location at the centre of Asia provides ease of access to visitors from all over the continent. In particular, its special political status means that Hong Kong is convenient for visitors from Taiwan who are a key collector group, with direct flights taking just over 1½ hours. Direct flights are currently not permitted between Taiwan and mainland China and journey times to Beijing and Shanghai take between 6 and 7 hours with a stop-over in Hong Kong. Approximate journey times to Hong Kong from other locations are as follows: Sydney 9 hrs, Delhi 5½ hrs, Tokyo 4½ hrs, Beijing, Singapore and Seoul 3½ hrs, Bangkok and Shanghai 2½ hrs.

 

According to the SCMP article:

"China collectors are looking for new work from established artists, though their work will be pricier, but collectors are also seeking out the younger cheaper ones who have a lot of potential."

 

About Inspiration, from Magnus Renfrew, fair art director for Art HK 08:

"I think the thing that attracted me to come to Asia and to China was that there is such fertile ground for inspiration. In China you have the largest movements of population from rural to urban environments that the world has ever seen. Everything in China is in superlatives. And with such large changes there are huge implications." (Which can be seen in the artowrk, apparently.)

 

Some established galleries who will be exhibiting include:

Marlborough Fine Art (London) : http://www.marlboroughfineart.com

 

Other Galleries : http://www.hongkongartfair.com/exhibitors/artgalleries.php

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SOME TALKS at HK ART 08:

 

HK - Beijing return: (Chow Chun-fai and Lam Tung-pang)

May 15, 4-5 pm

 

Informed Taste: (Monique Berger and Tobias Berger, successful Swiss collectors):

May 15, 6-7 pm

 

Cultural Investment: (Henry Tang Ying-yen, Ron Arculli, David Tang Wing-cheun, businessmen, politician, collectors)

May 16, 6-7 pm

Why art is important in their lives, and the coming importance of the W.Kowloon cultural district

 

Space Exploration: (Elaine Ng, Zhang Wei)

May 18, 3-4 pm

Aer cities in the pearl river delta (HK. Shenzhen, Guangzhou) creating a different art environment than Beijing

 

/see: xx

 

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NEW TO BUYING ART ??

================

 

Buying art for investment or love can be both a life long pleasure and potentially financially rewarding. These tips might help the intrepid new collector:

 

 

• Trust your eye: only buy something if you really love it, not because you think that it will make you money, there is no such thing as a guaranteed investment.

 

• Don't be afraid of asking for more information about the artist and their techniques. Ask for a copy of the artist’s CV, it is useful to see at what stage in their development they are, if they have had any solo shows etc.

 

• Ask to see other examples of the artist’s work. It is a good sign if you like their whole body of work; this is not essential but can indicate that the artist is consistent in their output.

 

• If you are buying for a specific space, measure up before you start looking, it is possible to make a small painting seem larger to fill a space but hanging a work in a space that is too small will never work.

 

• Many galleries will be happy for you to pay in installments – just ask.

 

• Two or three works can look as effective in a space as one large work.

 

• Ask the seller about how best to hang and light the work

 

• A good frame can enhance a picture hugely; a bad one can ruin it. If the work is unframed then ask about framing – the gallery may offer a framing service.

 

• If a painting you like is over your budget then ask if there are any other works by the same artist.

 

• If you're not sure about a piece ask if you can try it at home for a few days. Many galleries will be happy to oblige; they will probably ask you to pay up front, then give you a refund if it comes back undamaged within an agreed period.

 

• A coloured dot beside a picture usually means the picture had been sold; it may also mean that it is on reserve but has not yet been sold. If it has been sold it may be an edition and other pieces available. You could ask if the artist could do a commission.

 

• Make a note on the back when and where you bought the work and for how much - so when your grandchildren inherit it they know all about it!

 

/see: http://www.hongkongartfair.com/vip/newtobuyingart.php

 

== ==

 

000001508.jpg..000001568.jpg

 

SCMP's Tips - for those interested in local Hk artists:

 

1/

Mirage / HK Group exhibition- created by Sabrina Fung (gallery owner)

 

2/

Meta4 Design Forum, an architectural firm: a styrofoam installation

 

3/

Grotto Fine Art- only stall focussed exclusively on contemporary HK artists

 

4/

10 Chancery Land Gallery- will be exhibiting the works of three local artists

 

OTHERS:

 

+ Homan Ho Man-chung's "dramatic kinetic sculpture:

 

+ Catherine Lee Yiu-man's "ceramic lotus flowers"

 

+ Esther Yip Lai-man's "world of minatures"

 

Comment:

"Hong kong is a Chinese City and should be viewed as part of Chinese art - like there's a Shaghai school.

There could be a 'Hong Kong school.' That would benefit the local scene

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Art in Hong Kong - Is it all about the money? - asks today's Post Magazine/SCMP

 

(there's a nice picture of a framed HK$100 note on the cover)

 

Show and Sell- by Kevin Kwong

 

In the international art market, Hong Kong is a major player when it comes to deals-

but can the city match the creativity of London and New York?

 

+ "Talk of Hk being an "art hub" is extremely premature

 

+ Other Asian cities are well ahead in their art festivals, especially in the autumn:

. 3rd Guangzhou Triennial

. 3rd Yokohama Triennial

. 7th Kwangju Biennual

. 6th Taipei Bienniel

. 2nd Singapore Bienniel

. 7th Shanghai Bienniel

. 6th Pusan Bienniel

= And now Hong Kong is having its first serious art fair

 

+ Hong Kong's claims are on the commercial side: the art auctions.

(Sotheby's has had several. Christies will have its first later this month.)

 

+ There aren't (yet) enough HK based collectors, to make it a real competitor with London & NY

 

+ HK museums are government owned, and are not adventurous. THey dont buy art which makes a

strong critical statement, against the government or culture. Privately-owned museums might be more

open to such controversial art

== == ==

 

HK SHOW HIGHLIGHTS // also see: whole article

 

Highlights of the Fair include: an important 1955 Picasso, Nue Aux Bras Levés (Max Lang, New York); Wang Qingsong’s interpretation of the Olympic Games The Glory of Hope (Chinablue Gallery, Beijing); new work by India’s rising star Jitish Kallat (Albion Gallery, London); and images from the Lanwei series by Hong Kong born artist Stanley Wong (who represented Hong Kong in the 51st Venice Biennale) that look at the impact of the mad ‘gold rush’ era in the Far East and what it has left behind (10 Chancery Lane, Hong Kong).

 

Special projects at the Fair will include an exhibition of Hong Kong artists curated by Sabrina Fung, who was also responsible for the 2005 Hong Kong Pavilion at the Venice Biennale. ‘It will be an exciting opportunity for an international audience to discover, for the first time, the innovative work of the new generation of Hong Kong artists’, says Ms Fung.

 

The Fair has gained the endorsement of the city’s burgeoning cultural community: “What is exciting about ART HK 08 is that it brings to Hong Kong a large range of works that have never before been seen by the Hong Kong public. This is particularly important in a city with limited large scale public programs for contemporary art.” says Claire Hsu of the Asia Art Archive, who will run a programme of talks during the Fair.

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ART is imitating stocks ... Art price slowdown follows BID's drop//: monthly : daily

 

Seasonal Art sales in NewYork lack spring - says WSJ

 

Economic concerns take toll on buyers; asians prefer angst

 

+ Overall sales grew only slightly from last year

+ Records (for individual artists) broken while clebs raise paddles

+ $1.49 billion captured by Sotheby's and Christies is down from $1.67 billion in Nov. 2007

+ Christies narrowly beat Sotheby's with $756.3 million in sales vs. estimated range of $670-$946mn.

+ Lucien Freud's "Benefits Supervisor Sleeping" (ugh!) fetched $33.6mn- record for a living artist

+ Sotheby's generated $742.2million compared with estimates of $622-818 million

 

img185242tmw4.jpg

(( The Art market's grown fat, but now it's going to sleep. ))

 

The wealthy are still buying their trophies, but:

 

"Art experts are troubled by the drop in buying during the day-long sales of lower priced works."

"The day sales are softening and the evning sales are thinning, and that shouldnt be happening."

 

The dollar was the bidding currency, but "non-Western tastes are driving the bidding"

 

"Brightly colored pop works fared better than muted ones."

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(an interesting event in Hong kong):

 

Art Hub Tour: Jockey Club Creative Arts Centre

 

Date: Saturday, 7 June 2008

Time: 10:15 am to 12:00 pm

Place: meet at 10:15 am Shek Kip Mei MTR Station Exit C Centre address: 30 Pak Tin Street, Tel: 2353-1311

Cost: $120 member; $180 non-member Free for student with valid ID

Enquiries: Bonnie Huo at 9193-6565

Optional: Lunch after on a share-cost basis

 

Echoing the contemporary art hubs of 798 in Beijing, or Moganshan in Shanghai, Hong Kong has just opened the Jockey Club Creative Arts Centre at Shek Kip Mei this spring. Its goal is to be a creative workplace for local artists, an arts meeting base for the community, and hopefully a cultural landmark of the region in the future.

 

A joint pilot project of the Jockey Club, Baptist University, Hong Kong Arts Centre and the HKSAR Government, the Jockey Club has donated almost $70 millions to help renovate the decommissioned nine-storey factory estate. It is now transformed into a complex where over 120 artists and art groups can rent at a reasonable price. The diversity of the tenants covers a wide cross section of art disciplines from fine, applied, media to performing arts.

 

As one of the first groups to tour this new Centre, its Executive Director, Eddie Lui Fung-Ngar (呂豐雅), has kindly coordinated our visit to coincide with some festive activities there. Eddie, a well-known award-winning international painter, sculptor, educator and art administrator, was also the Project Director during the Centre's renovation. He will share with us the whole process of how a dream is brought to reality.

 

For further information, please visit website: http://www.hkbu.edu.hk/jccac/

and/: http://www.hku.hk/hkumag/society2.html#hub

 

== == == == ==

 

Jockey Club Creative Arts Centre

media_exterior.jpg

 

The Centre will be operated on a self-financing basis. It will be open to the public and people from all walks of life can come to enjoy the art works and savour the cultural ambience. In the long run, the Centre will make its mark on the cultural map of Asia.

 

Besides pursuing their artistic endeavours, artists and art groups resident at the Centre are expected to cooperate and share their professional knowledge with one another. They can also make use of the space for art education and training, and other art-related business ventures.

 

locationmap.jpg

 

/see: http://net3.hkbu.edu.hk/~jccac/content_e.p...oduction#vision

== == ==

 

Works by Eddie Lui Fung-Ngar :

locationmap.jpg..locationmap.jpg

http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:nnBxU2.../003-0026LG.jpg

 

== == ==

 

The Art Hive / Jason's Creations : 2A, 61 Caine Road, SOHO Central

Tel.: 9339-9921

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JH Kunstler as a painter

 

painting_dynamos.jpg..painting_route22.jpg..

 

I found this interview with social commentator, JHK, to be interesting.

I like his art, but not as much as his social commentary- which can be highly ironic.

 

It is interesting to see that he avoids irony in his art.

 

KunstlerCast#11: Picturing Suburbia

 

http://media.libsyn.com/media/kunstlercast...tlerCast_11.mp3

 

When James Howard Kunstler isn't railing against suburban sprawl, he's painting it. Vincent van Gogh painted the peasant sleeping by the haystack because he was living in a landscape populated by people. Our landscape is populated by cars. So, as a sur la motif painter of our time, Jim's subjects include cars on the road, gas stations and the industrial ruins of America's manufacturing past. Making this landscape legible on the canvas is a challenge, but it's also dangerous! An angry manager once told Jim that painting the Burger King is not allowed.

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Has anyone heard of this index? Copied from a Sotheby's brochure

 

artindexnmmaaaima0.jpg

 

Why was it stopped, I wonder?

 

I suppose the point of it was that Art prices tend to keep up with stock prices.

But I dont know how it is computed

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i remember a spate of high art sales prior to the 90s downturn.

perhaps its a way of avoiding inflation and somewhere to save your big cash money in troubled times.

 

i think at the time it was van gogh's daffodils or something that set a new record.

and monet was also in the rise.

 

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i remember a spate of high art sales prior to the 90s downturn.

perhaps its a way of avoiding inflation and somewhere to save your big cash money in troubled times.

 

i think at the time it was van gogh's daffodils or something that set a new record.

and monet was also in the rise.

Maybe you're thinking of Still Life: Vase with Fifteen Sunflowers.

On March 31, 1987, even those without interest in art were made aware of van Gogh's Sunflowers series when Japanese insurance magnate Yasuo Goto paid the equivalent of USD $39,921,750 for Van Gogh's Still Life: Vase with Fifteen Sunflowers at auction at Christie's London, at the time a record-setting amount for a work of art

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunflowers_(s...s_of_paintings)

 

I remember my brother (an artist) saying how disappointed he was that it made a record price. His reason was that it was his favourite painting, but to say so would sound trite after it achieved record-breaking fame.

 

Here' the painting:

Vase-of-Fifteen-Sunflowers-c1889-Print-C12180991.jpeg

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If you see art that you would want to hang on your wall on stand in a corner then buy it, love it for what it is

 

If you want to be a patron to an artist then be one, it is your money, but do it for altruistic reasons. Spend the money in advertising the artist in a gallery and getting a payment in the artist’s art. The artist gets recognition and the value of the artists work will increase

 

If you want to invest in art, even that by the great artists, then wait until there is a recession and buy art when the recession is at its lowest point and then trade that art in the auctions for better art. The auction house will always do a deal on the commissions which will make everything a lot cheaper

 

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Ooh ! Good thread. I'm an engineer and successfully hide my arty interests under a philistine bushel. Of course, thankfully, this allows me to never understand some of the high priced art out there.

 

I occasionally buy originals and often several of the same artist, so, I'll have a mini collection. I'm currently liking Rosie Scott, have bought a few and will buy some more. I just like them and like the gold coins, I hope I'll never have to sell but pass them on outside of any government claws.

 

What about other art, such as objects, vases etc. Lovely to have around but some of the antique Moorecroft pottery I bought in the late 80's is barely worth any more now - despite high expectations.

Got to be careful or we'll end up like the BBC's Antiques Roadshow.

 

edit. spelling

 

Are you sure about that?

 

I bought 2 vases and one bowl at Montrose auction house in 1987 (ish). They went under the hammer as a single lot and I paid £800.

That was a substantial wedge back then. I remember my car at the time was an Austin Allegro which cost me £50, so thay puts things in perspective.

 

I haven't had them valued but they are a popular pomegranate design and being a "set" should fetch a premium.

Individual pieces of a similar size sell for around £800 each.

 

I'd go along with the "only buy what you like" advice though.

 

 

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Prices for the most sought-after works have soared in recent years despite broader economic concerns, with collectors in China, Russia and the Middle East joining more established patrons in Europe and the United States.

 

article-2274181-175ECC13000005DC-853_634x465.jpg

Picasso's Femme Assise Pres d'une Fenetre (Woman Sitting Near a Window) sold for £28,601,250 at Sotheby's, London

 

article-2274181-17456A4D000005DC-990_634x532.jpg

What recession? Prices for the most sought-after works have soared in recent years despite broader economic concerns

 

Read more: http://www.dailymail...l#ixzz2K9hcZMc8

 

 

BID / Sotheby's (NYSE) ... update

 

bid.gif

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Reaction of someone in the clubhouse here:

 

"It looks like something my kid might draw."

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I love the Daily Mail. Masochistically. It's there to whip you up into a frenzy like George Orwell's 2-minute hate.

 

A guilty pleasure of mine is to go to a particularly controversial ignorant news item in the Mail and check out the "best rated" and "worst rated" comments...

 

And the top rated comment is to bin this art if your kid brought it home from school. Such pity I have for that guy's kid.

 

BEST COMMENTS

If your child brought it home from school you would bin it!

 

Gulp' date=' someone has too much money!!

 

There must be some 'tax fiddles' with all this sort of money being spent on trash .

 

Picasso's work is vastly overrated - very much the Damien Hirst of his day.

 

Picasso was a great and very talented artist but he soon realised that the gullible art market would buy anything he produced. Lucky he didn't sell his used toilet paper!

 

I'm no art critic but that's s..t

 

EMPERORS NEW CLOTHES SPRINGS TO MIND!

 

this just goes to prove that people will buy rubbish because they think others want it . it represents the insane part of human nature

 

I am not an artist, but I GUARANTEE you if I spent some time on this, I'd reproduce that painting down to the last detail![/quote']

 

WORST COMMENTS

It is such a pity that most people just don't get it.

 

 

At least the money wasnt used to further destroy the housing market.

 

To pay this sort of money for what looks like a childs attempt at a picture is utter madness' date=' the buyer is most cirtainly suffering from a touch of the "Emporers new clothe syndrome".

 

 

That's what DRUGS do !

 

 

 

Shouda gone to Specsavers.

 

You can give 'em money, but you can't give 'em taste!

 

 

"Hmmmm. Should I purchase this, or a skyscraper in the city of my choice? It's a tough call. I guess..., well, ... I guess this doodling makes the nut. And I can brag to my friends that I have this and they don't!"

 

You think this is crazy. Have you seen Jackson Pollock's No 5 ($140 million). Google it? Talk about the emperors new clothes!!!

 

It would be interesting to know how many people out there could successfully reproduce this picture at a very small cost. Don't think it would be that difficult.

 

 

Impressionist? Really? Yes indeed, this picture would look perfect paired with a Renoir's "Claude Monet reading."...[/quote']

 

Funny how emeperor's new clothes and the idea of "reproduction" comes into play. Talk about missing the point! Plus the predictable criticism of Hirst. These idiots would have preferred for all artistic expression to stop at Rembrandt with his "perfect" portraits.

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She really is a bit of a monster

 

abbar.jpg

 

Or was Picasso depicting an alien-human hybrid he knew personally?

(Maybe one of his own children, by an alien. Haha )

 

abbay.jpg

 

Maybe she is Picasso's Alien ?

 

nicole-kidman-space-alien-e.jpg

 

gene-picasso.jpg

 

(Careful, let's not start a crazy rumor.)

Still she's a strange-looking bird.

 

"Every child is an artist. The problem is staying an artist when you grow up."

- Pablo Picasso

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What Made The Da Vinci Painting Worth $450 Million (HBO)

 

A best-selling novel... and:

An over-heated market?

 

BID / Sotheby's ... all-data :

LCPIGQw.gif

==

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Bump & Merge? - two art threads

 

ART thread: A long term investment? Or short punt?
Started by DrBubb, 15 Apr 2008

t_read_dot.png ART : End of a boom ?
Started by DrBubb, 06 Feb 2013

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