GTG Posted May 25, 2008 Report Share Posted May 25, 2008 Brilliant, thank you GTG I agree, it's an important subject, and a new thread would be good. You're welcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTG Posted May 29, 2008 Report Share Posted May 29, 2008 In the light of what's being discussed here I'm looking to liquidate my G&S ETF holdings within my SIPP and invest in the closed end Central Fund of Canada (AMEX:CEF) (TSE:CEF.A) (TSE:CEF:U) http://www.centralfund.com/. The fund holds physical bullion and is split approximately 50/50 G&S. It will still mean a switch of SIPP plan manager from Alliance Trust Savings (whom LSE listed equities are the only options) to Sippdeal http://www.sippdeal.co.uk/home.aspx. Sippdeals standard product is similar to my existing plan manager in that there is no annual management charge, however dealing commissions are slightly higher and a transfer in fee of £50 would be payable. The international investment choices with this standard product are described as " A range of US and euro shares is also available." I confirmed with them that (AMEX:CEF) was elligible but not on TSE, I'm wondering as a UK investor if it would make any difference which exchange I used? My understanding is that currency denomination is not an issue. Clarification on this point and any comments as to the appropriateness of the Fund would be appreciated. TIA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Netwriter Posted June 1, 2008 Report Share Posted June 1, 2008 I'm making a note of what you post GTG, thanks More on ETFs: International Forecaster May 2008 (#9) - Gold, Silver, Economy + More By: Bob Chapman http://news.goldseek.com/InternationalFore.../1212344040.php If you want to really see gold and silver go on a rampage, liquidate all your precious metal paper counterfeits such as ETF's, mint certificates and futures and use them to purchase and take possession of physical gold and silver bullion. When the COMEX cupboards of gold and silver are empty, you have then purchased the casino and can gamble with impunity. The bullion and collectable coins will skyrocket when volume takes them out of circulation. That is what paper sources of gold and silver are all about, namely, to forestall the taking of precious metals off the table and out of circulation so these pools of paper gold and silver can be used against the very people who invested in them in the first place. Be sure to take a goodly portion of your ETF liquidations and plow them into resource stocks. ETF's are despicable, multipurpose elitist vehicles of metals suppression. They create pools of gold and silver which can be sold and leased, and divert money away from more traditional vehicles like resource stocks. Continuation of ETF investments is like spinning a revolver with five of six chambers loaded and then putting it to your head and pressing the trigger. Why give the elitists a pool of gold, which is greater than many central banks possess so they can use it against you by leasing it out or selling it off. Get in it for the long haul and stop taking profits and trading in and out. Every time there is massive profit-taking, the cartel gets an undeserved breather, and of course they make any resulting downturn all the worse with their usual suppressive tactics. Who would want futures, ETF's or mint certificates when the best leverage plays are in resource stocks. A great junior will provide leverage that will outperform the futures market hands down without the risk of loss due to the passage of time. You do not have to worry about running out of time when you own high quality resource stocks, but the time element is your main nemesis when you deal in futures. We are puzzled and perplexed at the lack of interest in resource stocks, but can understand some of the reluctance because of the continual naked-shorting used by the cartel. However, naked shorting is a two-edged sword, and if you catch the cartel off guard with a huge rally their shorts will get slaughtered and you will have a massive short-covering rally on your hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted June 1, 2008 Report Share Posted June 1, 2008 Here is CEF compared to other Etf's ps they also have GTU which is 100% gold no silver they have been in business since 1960 I think long before Etf's were thought of. Comparison of Four Precious Metal Investment Vehicles to Spot Gold http://jessescrossroadscafe.blogspot.com/2...ce-of-four.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbs7 Posted June 10, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2008 Here is CEF compared to other Etf's ps they also have GTU which is 100% gold no silver they have been in business since 1960 I think long before Etf's were thought of. Comparison of Four Precious Metal Investment Vehicles to Spot Gold http://jessescrossroadscafe.blogspot.com/2...ce-of-four.html It's been a while since I first brought up my concern, and I took steps to sell my GLD, SLV, GBS.L, SLVR.L and reallocate them into what I consider safer bullion equivalents. For me Goldmoney is likely the safest of all, however I like to maintain some diversification so I found some Swiss ETFs run by ZKB Bank which I feel are safer (am I naive to think this?) and have used these to maintain a little more liquidity with a smaller fraction of my precious metals. If anyone is interested the ETFs are below, and demoniated in Swiss Francs: ZGLD ZKB GOLD ETF ZSIL ZKB SILVER ETF ZPLA ZKB PLATINUM ETF ZPAL ZKB PALLADIUM ETF I can also get some easy platinum and palladium exposure with these which I feel is useful. Something interesting about Central Fund of Canada was that it seems to be trading at a premium to net asset value lately which I don't really understand given that the underlying assets are simply gold and silver bullion. Although I think CEF is a safe investment I actually sold my holidngs here too as I felt the premium was unjustified - am I missing something about CEF? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notanewmember Posted June 16, 2008 Report Share Posted June 16, 2008 A WARNING ABOUT ETFS I ve had a quiet moment to think about this. When inflation gets even worse, and the finger is firmly pointed at "speculators", ETFS will be shut down. Its no coincidence that inflation has really started to acelerate, when ETFs were being introduced, its only a matter of time before people put two and two together. I don't believe we are near to this event, and when it happens it will possibly signal the end of the commodities bull run or at least cause a significant correction. They will try to raise interest rates possibly first, then force sell only orders on ETFs. This maybe 2 years off. Note - I hold precious metals ETFs, but remain viglant on rule changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frizzers Posted June 16, 2008 Report Share Posted June 16, 2008 Good point, not a new. I like Bob Chapman, but he is wrong about good gold juniors. They have not provided good leverage to gold over the past year or so. That may change, but for now it is the case Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLASH Posted June 16, 2008 Report Share Posted June 16, 2008 A WARNING ABOUT ETFS I ve had a quiet moment to think about this. When inflation gets even worse, and the finger is firmly pointed at "speculators", ETFS will be shut down. Its no coincidence that inflation has really started to acelerate, when ETFs were being introduced, its only a matter of time before people put two and two together. I don't believe we are near to this event, and when it happens it will possibly signal the end of the commodities bull run or at least cause a significant correction. They will try to raise interest rates possibly first, then force sell only orders on ETFs. This maybe 2 years off. Note - I hold precious metals ETFs, but remain viglant on rule changes. Do you mean a compulsory purchase or that holders will lose all or a proprtion of thier money? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notanewmember Posted June 17, 2008 Report Share Posted June 17, 2008 Do you mean a compulsory purchase or that holders will lose all or a proprtion of thier money? I do not know how such a occurance would play out. You can't beat city hall as they say, thats for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTG Posted July 13, 2008 Report Share Posted July 13, 2008 A WARNING ABOUT ETFS I ve had a quiet moment to think about this. When inflation gets even worse, and the finger is firmly pointed at "speculators", ETFS will be shut down. Its no coincidence that inflation has really started to acelerate, when ETFs were being introduced, its only a matter of time before people put two and two together. I don't believe we are near to this event, and when it happens it will possibly signal the end of the commodities bull run or at least cause a significant correction. They will try to raise interest rates possibly first, then force sell only orders on ETFs. This maybe 2 years off. Note - I hold precious metals ETFs, but remain viglant on rule changes. He argued that these companies have both the financial and political clout to block ETF legislation that would bring down the last remaining barriers to widespread adoption of the funds. http://www.morningstar.co.uk/UK/funds/arti...&validfrom= New ones seem to be popping up every month, add to this that the UK listings are very unrepresented compared to the states and you've got a growing industry with (as the author above said) all the financial and politcal clout associated with it. All of them agreed with panel moderator and Morningstar US director of ETF analysis Scott Burns that ETFs are one of the truly great financial innovations of the past 30 years, and that the rapid adoption of ETFs by new users is not likely to slow anytime soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTG Posted July 28, 2008 Report Share Posted July 28, 2008 Something interesting about Central Fund of Canada was that it seems to be trading at a premium to net asset value lately which I don't really understand given that the underlying assets are simply gold and silver bullion. Although I think CEF is a safe investment I actually sold my holidngs here too as I felt the premium was unjustified - am I missing something about CEF? One additional note on Central Fund of Canada (CEF), a closed-end fund that invests in gold and silver bullion, mentioned here last week. An old friend points out that the tax treatment of Central Fund of Canada is more favorable than for the gold-based ETFs (tickers GLD and IAU) and the coming silver ETF. CEF, like other mutual funds, gets capital-gains treatment, so long-term gains are taxed at a maximum of 15% by Uncle Sam. The ETFs are taxed as collectibles, which means a rate as high as 28%. The premium on CEF had shrunk to 3.91% over net asset value as of Thursday, according to etfconnect.com, from over 11% the previous week. For taxable accounts, CEF's tax privilege could explain the premium. Not that logic enters into tax law; it's hard to justify a mutual fund being granted a more favorable tax treatment than the investments it holds. But so be it. http://seekingalpha.com/article/8489-compa...cef-gld-iau-slv Thanks for the alternative ETF's BTW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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