The Chicago, Illinois thread (US #3)

[drbubb]

The Chicago, Illinois thread (US #3)

The Chicago Spire , and other projects)

===========================

 

now Chicago muscles in on Ultra-scraper race: 150 stories high

 

The drill bit has made it thru from China

 

See:/ http://www.thechicagospire.com/

 

PRESS: http://www.thechicagospire.com/admin/uploads/chicago_tribune.pdf

 

SOME OLD PRICES...

 

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = : (from an August 2003 thread on Chicago Property) = =

 

..

...The Grand, ??? Grand St.............. : Map to nearby streets, North of The Loop

 

Building. Apartment --Price- SqFt $/sf ASM Tax/mo 6%Pr Month Adj.mo /SFt

Sterling. 1BR delux $325,000. 920 $353 329 $406.. 1625 $2360 $1629 :1.77

. " " " .... 2BR small $560,700 1150 $487 545 $701.. 2804 $4050 $2788 :2.42

. " " " .... 2BR large $579,000 1310 $441 592 $724.. 2895 $4211 $2908 :2.21

Millenium 1BR Sview $392,000. 929 $422 335 $490e. 1960 $2785 $1903 :2.05

. " " " .... 2BR Nview $515,000 1185 $434 408 $644e. 2575 $3627 $2468 :2.08

Grand.... 2BR # 704 $369,000 1250 $295 280e$461e. 1845 $2586 $1756 :1.40

. " " " .... 2BR #1704 $398,000 1250 $318 287 $498e. 1990 $2775 $1879 :1.50

. " " " .... 2BR #1606 $468,000 1606 $291 330 $560e. 2340 $3230 $1879 :1.17

Riverbend 1BR A6??? $371,000 1206 $307 440e$541e. 1855 $2836 $1986 :1.65

. " " " .... 1B+D B2?? $573,000 1606 $356 465e$836e. 2865 $4166 $2927 :1.82

. " " " .... 2BR .B1??? $619,000 1855 $337 490e$902e. 3095 $4487 $3069 :1.65

165NCanal 2B+S PHpk $499,000 1608 $310 456 $362.. 2495 $3313 $2265 :1.41

 

RENTAL--- ......... ........ SqFt

400NLaSal 1BR.MidFl Reg.rent 1015 12mo spreadover 14mo $2100 $1800 :1.77

. " " " .... 1B+DMidFl Reg.rent 1034 12mo spreadover 14mo $2150 $1843 :1.78

. " " " ...... 2BR.MidFl Reg.rent 1271 12mo spreadover 14mo $2596 $2298 :1.81

- - - - -

 

Links: Chicago:

===========

The Grand........ : http://www.grandongrand.com

SkyScrapers..... : http://www.skyscrapers.com/re/en/wm/bu/101494/

ChicagoBuildings: http://www.aviewoncities.com/building/_buildingschicago1.htm

The Sterling...... : On American Invesco's website

Chicago Rentals. : http://www.chicago.com/classifieds/browse/category.php?ID=400

Riverbend......... : http://www.thefinestcondos.com/buildings/riverbend/riverbend2.htm

 

100 Years of Chicago Land Prices: http://www.wsu.edu/~forda/chome.html

[All Seeing Pie]

Greetings from Chicago! The Spire looks like it's going to be a superb building as does the new Trump Tower which is nearly completed. The only problem is where are all the residents going to come from? There has been a huge amount of building especially on the 'new' East side and south of the Loop. I've noticed that the realtors are getting more agressive in their advertising which seems to suggest the market is on the turn.

[drbubb]

Greetings from Chicago!

...I've noticed that the realtors are getting more agressive in their advertising which seems to suggest the market is on the turn.

 

Hi, ASP.

Are prices falling in Chicago yet?

I almost bought a condo, when I revisited there in 2003. A place called "the Grand".

I wonder how that has done? Do the prices (from 2003) below look "cheap" to you?

 

Chicago prices have soared less than in California, Miami, or Las Vegas. So they will probably fall less too.

 

But what a poor time to be selling a load of expensive new space!

 

= = = (from an August 2003 thread on Chicago Property) = = =

 

Building. Apartment --Price- SqFt $/sf ASM Tax/mo 6%Pr Month Adj.mo /SFt

Sterling. 1BR delux $325,000. 920 $353 329 $406.. 1625 $2360 $1629 :1.77

. " " " .... 2BR small $560,700 1150 $487 545 $701.. 2804 $4050 $2788 :2.42

. " " " .... 2BR large $579,000 1310 $441 592 $724.. 2895 $4211 $2908 :2.21

Millenium 1BR Sview $392,000. 929 $422 335 $490e. 1960 $2785 $1903 :2.05

. " " " .... 2BR Nview $515,000 1185 $434 408 $644e. 2575 $3627 $2468 :2.08

Grand.... 2BR # 704 $369,000 1250 $295 280e$461e. 1845 $2586 $1756 :1.40

. " " " .... 2BR #1704 $398,000 1250 $318 287 $498e. 1990 $2775 $1879 :1.50

. " " " .... 2BR #1606 $468,000 1606 $291 330 $560e. 2340 $3230 $1879 :1.17

Riverbend 1BR A6??? $371,000 1206 $307 440e$541e. 1855 $2836 $1986 :1.65

. " " " .... 1B+D B2?? $573,000 1606 $356 465e$836e. 2865 $4166 $2927 :1.82

. " " " .... 2BR .B1??? $619,000 1855 $337 490e$902e. 3095 $4487 $3069 :1.65

165NCanal 2B+S PHpk $499,000 1608 $310 456 $362.. 2495 $3313 $2265 :1.41

 

RENTAL--- ......... ........ SqFt

400NLaSal 1BR.MidFl Reg.rent 1015 12mo spreadover 14mo $2100 $1800 :1.77

. " " " .... 1B+DMidFl Reg.rent 1034 12mo spreadover 14mo $2150 $1843 :1.78

. " " " ...... 2BR.MidFl Reg.rent 1271 12mo spreadover 14mo $2596 $2298 :1.81

- - - - -

 

100 Years of Chicago Land Prices: http://www.wsu.edu/~forda/chome.html

[All Seeing Pie]

From my perspective (UK National) Chicago prices have always seemed cheap. I can get a more than decent condo for $200K which in the UK is all but impossible. Prices fell 6% last year and I get the feeling the falls are only just starting. As you say prices rose less here so I suspect we won't see the falls that we think the UK or California will have.

[drbubb]

From my perspective (UK National) Chicago prices have always seemed cheap. I can get a more than decent condo for $200K which in the UK is all but impossible. Prices fell 6% last year and I get the feeling the falls are only just starting. As you say prices rose less here so I suspect we won't see the falls that we think the UK or California will have.

 

Can you still buy luxury Condos north of the Loop at $350 -400 per sf?

 

Any idea of the expected prices for The Spire?

 

[drbubb]

Let's look at the CHICAGO component in the Case-Schiller index:

==========================

 

mo.: 10cities / National/ Miami , S.Fran. -NYC-, Boston, Chicago Denver Detroit : Ch./10c

ja '0: 100.00 / 100.00 , 100.00, 100.00, 100.00, 100.00, 100.00, 100.00, 100.00 :

ja '1: 114.58 / ===... / 110.82, 131,16, 112.66, 117.67, 108.35, 114.75, 107.18

ja '2: 123.93 / ===... / 124.52, 125.13, 125.19, 129.93, 116.96, 121.30, 111.31

ja '3: 142.86 / ===... / 143.78, 141.50, 146.55, 146.79, 126.77, 124.81, 115.52

ja '4: 162.90 / ===... / 164.82, 155.93, 163.63, 158.54, 137.65, 127.20, 119.57

D'04: 191.42 / 163.06 / 201.37, 185.72, 185.16, 173.42, 148.85, 132.40, 123.21

jun'5: 208.86 / 176.70 / 233.42, 208.92, 197.77, 181.33, 156.16, 135.71, 125.47

D'05: 221.91 / 186.97 / 264.83, 215.11, 212.68, 179.44, 163.16, 137.50, 127.05

jun'6: 226.29 / 189.93 / 278.22, 218.12, 215.83, 177.90, 167.10, 139.46, 123.12

D'06: 222.39 / 187.35 / 280.87, 212.13, 213.76, 170.32, 167.60, 137.11, 119.51

jun. : 217.33 / 183.89 / 264.89, 209.48, 209.34, 171.29, 165.94, 138.09, 110.70 :

. . .

mo.: +CSXR / +S20R/ Miami , S.Fran. -NYC-, Boston, Chicago, Denver Detroit

sep. : 212.70 / 195.68 / 249.61, 206.46, 206.30, 170.73, 164.42, 138.43, 110.83

oct. : 209.77 / 192.98 / 244.35, 202.03, 205.58, 169.34, 163.12, 136.08, 108.15

nov : 205.29 / 188.97 / 237.99, 195.49, 204.50, 167.40, 163.13, 133.36, 105.24

dec : 200.73 / 170.64 / 231.71, 189.23, 202.32, 164.59, 160.03, 130.98, 103.30

Jan : 196.06 / 180.65 / 225.40, 183.81, 200.49, 162.59, 156.47, 128.98, 100.17

 

= =

Aug. 2003, Chicago index would have been about: 132

The Dec.2006 peak was 167.60- that's 27% higher,

and this suggests Condo prices at the Grand might have gone up by 27%

from $320 per square foot in $406 psf at the 2006 peak.

 

By end-Jan. 2008, the Chicago component had fallen to 156.03, that's 6.9% off the peak.

And that suggests a possible price of about $378 psf for the representative flat at The Grand.

[drbubb]

(Chicago makes the "Slow List"):

 

America's Worst-Selling Housing Markets

Matt Woolsey, 04.15.08, 4:34 PM ET

 

In Pictures: America's Worst-Selling Housing Markets : List

 

##: City========== : Ave. Price: chg. : Unsold : sales

.1. Miami, Florida....... : $345,900: - 5.7% : 81,613 : 0.2% /mo.

.2. Orlando, Florida.... : $240,400: -11.7% : 34,384 : 0.6% /mo.

.3. Phoenix, Arizona... : $241,700: - 7.8% : 53,717 : 0.6% /mo.

.4. Tampa, Florida...... : $201,600: -12.2% : 56,491 : 0.8% /mo.

.5. Los Angeles, Calif. : $509,700: -13.1% 100,770 : 2.0% /mo.

.6. Washington, D.C.. : $400,100: - 5.1% : 47,432 : 2.2% /mo.

.7. Chicago, Illinois... : $261,000: - 2.6% : 72,842 : 2.3% /mo.

.8. Baltimore, Md..... : $275,100: - 1.0% : 9,210 : 2.5% /mo.

.9. San Diego, Calif.. : $522,900: - 9.8% : 18,450 : 2.7% /mo.

10. Denver, Col........ : $230,100: - 6.3% : 21,756 : 2.9% /mo.

 

Miami-area home sellers looking to unload their properties might want to make sure they have comfortable couches.

 

It looks like they're going to be there a while.

 

That's because Miami tops our list of the nation's most sedentary housing markets. These 10 spots feature a potent mix of dropping prices and sluggish sales rates. Also on the list: Denver, San Diego, Baltimore and Chicago.

. . .

In Chicago, for example, where the median home sale price in the fourth quarter of 2007 was $261,000, a 2.6% drop from the previous year, there were 72,842 homes on the market, with 2.2% of them selling each month.

 

While this sales rate alone isn't extraordinary, it matters because Chicago's housing supply is overstocked, with 50% more houses on the market than two years ago. Prices, as a result, are continuing to sink.

 

 

/more: http://www.forbes.com/realestate/2008/04/1...realestate.html

== ==

 

Chicago, Ill.

Chicago's market difficulties haven't received a great deal of attention outside of the Midwest, due largely to the fact that it looks healthy compared with neighboring Michigan and Ohio. Still, the market almost doubled its unsold inventory between 2005 and 2008, and that stock has evaporated very slowly

[drbubb]

Can you still buy luxury Condos north of the Loop at $350 -400 per sf?

Any idea of the expected prices for The Spire?

 

I went to the exhibition here.

The prices surprise me: $1,000 - $1,500 psf, depending on the floor.

 

The building will be a real landmark, but these are awesome prices in a slow market.

No wonder they are marketing the property globally

 

[All Seeing Pie]

I went to the exhibition here.

The prices surprise me: $1,000 - $1,500 psf, depending on the floor.

 

The building will be a real landmark, but these are awesome prices in a slow market.

No wonder they are marketing the property globally

$1000-$1500! I know it's going to a landmark building but come on! They are building like crazy in that area. There's also the Trump Tower and a few other mega buildings being built in the downtown area. Remember the old saying 'Don't buy when there's a lot of cranes in the sky'. I can't tell you how much $ per sq/ft places are going for, what I can tell you is that there's no shortages of condos here. Finally an advert for a Realtor has just come on, they weren't advertising last year..

[drbubb]

$1000-$1500! I know it's going to a landmark building but come on! They are building like crazy in that area. There's also the Trump Tower and a few other mega buildings being built in the downtown area. Remember the old saying 'Don't buy when there's a lot of cranes in the sky'. I can't tell you how much $ per sq/ft places are going for, what I can tell you is that there's no shortages of condos here. Finally an advert for a Realtor has just come on, they weren't advertising last year..

 

Of course, i have no thought so buying now.

I wonder if it will ever get built. It seems to be reliant on fopreign buyers, who do not know what is

happening "on the ground", or real optimists who believe that the Chicago market will make a strong recovery

after the correction which is underway.

 

Secondhand properties bought sensibly over the next 2-4 years, have got to be a better proposition.

 

[drbubb]

(eco)Logical: Greening the 21st Century City

Chicago is a leader, says its Mayor Daly

 

MIT Video: http://mitworld.mit.edu/video/268/

 

ABOUT THE LECTURE:

Without much national fanfare, Chicago has transformed itself into a paragon of green virtue. The remarkable achievements cited by Mayor Daley include: converting nearly every inch of the city’s 26 miles of lakefront to public use, including parks, fountains, bike paths, theatre and concert space; planting 1.6 million square feet of gardens on the roofs of city hall, city schools, parking garages, museums and stores like Target and Walmart, thus lowering temperatures in the summer and energy needed to cool buildings; transforming brown fields into new industrial facilities, affordable housing, green spaces, and generating three thousand new jobs; creating environmentally sensitive construction standards for all public buildings, and helping private enterprises achieve similar standards, including the use of recycled materials and solar panels.

 

Ken Greenberg notes across the U.S. a new “understanding of the cohabitation of nature and society of humans in cities,” one which “cuts across class and political divides” because of the “powerful allure of natural features.” Hillary Brown observes among urban designers “a new shared language based on ecological metaphors and whole systems thinking.” She champions “demystifying sustainable practices, making the benefits of greening comprehensive and transparent to everyone,” including those who pave city sidewalks and roads, build sewers and treat water. Robert Campbell admits “green looks better” but warns that “green buildings are largely symbolic,” because “they won’t solve the world’s energy problems by a long shot.”

 

People are obsessed “with the Eden of the natural world, which blinds us to reality.” The only long-term green solution involves “reorganizing the patterns by which we inhabit earth” -- compact settlement in cities, versus suburban sprawl. Doug Foy says, “Anything we do to put things in cities…and to keep them off of green landscapes… is a win.” He concludes that all great cities require useable water front, transit systems for dense habitation, neighborhoods and nonprofit organizations that sustain the economy through ups and downs.

 

NOTES ON THE VIDEO (Time Index):

Video length is 1:48:29.

[drbubb]

MORE on the Spire from today's SCMP:

 

Developer Ivan Bowen Murphy is confident that the 609-meter Spire will become a Chicago Landmark

(= President of Dublin-based Shelbourne Development)

 

"Oversized Drill bit" to cost US$1.5 billion, and is scheduled for completion in 2011.

150-storeys with 1,194 units, ranging from 534 sf ($750k) to 10,293 sf ($40mn)

 

+ expects to sell 60% to Chicagoans (if only!)

 

Now marketing in: HK, Shanghai, KL, S.Africa, Moscow, Middle East, and some Eurpoean cities

[drbubb]

Some Chicago Condos - news items

 

Real Estate News at a Glance

by Anthony Longo on 28 Jun 2010

 

Chicago-area homeownership at 8-year low [chicagorealestatedaily.com]

 

Homeownership in the Chicago area has plummeted in the first quarter to its lowest level in almost 8 years, which has prompted the chairman of the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation to express doubts about a rebound in homeownership. Sheila Barr has called for an overhaul in the nation’s housing policy and advocates a focus on affordable rental housing rather than encouraging homeownership.

The percentage of people who own their own homes fell to 67.4% in the first quarter, which has fallen from 69.0% in the fourth …

 

 

/see: http://www.chicagocondoloft.com/2010/06/

[drbubb]

Trend: Downtown Chicago rent at 2007 highs

 

by Liz SanFilippo on 16 May 2011

 

The cost of renting in Chicago just continues to go up. Just weeks after news that one-third of Chicago renters spend half their income on rent, Crain’s is reporting that the cost of renting downtown apartments has reached 2007 levels. This trend is due, in large part, to landlords recognizing that demand far outweighs supply.

 

Rent in downtown Chicago now averages about $2.29 a square foot in the first quarter of 2011, a 2.7% increase over 2010 fourth quarter rates and a 6.0% increase compared to last year at this time.

 

/more: http://www.chicagocondoloft.com/trend-downtown-chicago-rent-at-2007-highs/

[Carlton]

Trend: Downtown Chicago rent at 2007 highs

 

by Liz SanFilippo on 16 May 2011

 

The cost of renting in Chicago just continues to go up. Just weeks after news that one-third of Chicago renters spend half their income on rent, Crain’s is reporting that the cost of renting downtown apartments has reached 2007 levels. This trend is due, in large part, to landlords recognizing that demand far outweighs supply.

 

Rent in downtown Chicago now averages about $2.29 a square foot in the first quarter of 2011, a 2.7% increase over 2010 fourth quarter rates and a 6.0% increase compared to last year at this time.

 

/more: http://www.chicagocondoloft.com/trend-downtown-chicago-rent-at-2007-highs/

Thank Goodness I'm not in that camp. But renting a decent place, in a decent area, with few police visit to your building is costly. The buy-vs-rent calculus already favors buying, and it looks like buying will only become more sensible over the next 12 months.

 

As you said earlier, DrB, buying a second-hand home is much more cost effective. Even some recent construction, from around 2005, has seen price falls of 35-50% - and in some cases 75%+. Some of these were brand new buildings but some were old apartment buildings that were rehabbed and "condo-ed out." Some of those apartment buildings probably never should have been converted and have produced a medium-to-long-term oversupply of condos. Hence, I think some of those old highs may not be surpassed for 20 years, or more.