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I'd be grateful if you could spare a moment to say why you feel investing in gold through GM is better than investing through Bullionvault.

Bullion Vault is a system where you can buy or sell to or from other users via an auction process, where as goldmoney has a system where they buy back from you at the spot price whenever you like for no cost. I have seen in the past there has been times when the price obtainable on BV has been less than spot, I can see that it could increase in the future at times. I also prefer the GM system, in that it doesn't encourage you to trade the way BV does.

 

Also Bullion Vault is registered in the UK, the thing I like about GoldMoney is the fact it is registered in the Channel Islands. The Channel Islands work under the rule of law, rather than the dictate of politicians. That policy has made the Channel Islands one of he world's leading financial centres. So even if gold ownership is declared illegal in the UK one day, it is highly unlikely to be declared illegal in the Channel Islands.

 

The other reason I like GoldMoney is the ability to swap physical Gold for Silver or vice versa at a very reasonable commission.

 

Hope that helps.

 

 

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Looking at goldmoney's chart there doesn't seem to have been much of an increase on gold held this year. Silver has shown a steady increase during 09:

 

chart_gold_304_E.png

chart_silver_304_E.png

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Looking at goldmoney's chart there doesn't seem to have been much of an increase on gold held this year. Silver has shown a steady increase during 09:

 

chart_gold_304_E.png

chart_silver_304_E.png

 

 

Interesting charts. That is a hell of alot of gold ounces James Turk holds at GM...He must be worth an absolute fortune...

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Thanks.

 

Interesting note from AA, I do find it curious that he mentions about GLD not gaining so much recently. I think people are starting not to trust ETFs such as GLD and would rather have physical. That was certainly the case recently when David Einhorn at Greenlight Capital sold 4.2 million GLD shares (roughly $390 Million) and moved it to physical, the GLD didn't start selling bars when he did that. Talk like Rob Kirby was making last month about the GLD bars being used to help the cartel meet delivery demands is also probably helping the move to physical.

 

I do agree we all need to be cautious and not us leverage to buy ourselves, leave that to the hedge funds/institutions who can borrow at 0.5%. That is why I won't touch the 2x & 3x gold ETFs, even though I can quiet often see in the market what is going to happen before it does. If too much private investor leverage gets used the PTB would arrange a shake out.

 

I know that I haven't been using BV at all recently, much prefer GM it just feels safer. I also notice that GM holdings are still increasing, they now hold over US$803 million of gold, silver, platinum & currencies as of 30 October 2009.

 

I think Jon Nadler can be regarded as a contra-indicator, what ever he says the opposite happens. Just do a search on google and there is plenty of evidence.

 

I expect when gold moves higher the PTB would try to create the atmosphere which is around currently, as Jim Sinclair has always said the people how will benefit the most out of golds rise will be the likes of Goldman sacs & establishment. They don't want the average Joe to rise in power easily and prefer to keep it for themselves.

 

 

Maybe over at BV people are pulling their gold out in physical? Wasn't there a lot of messy talk about 1kg bars minimum etc...or was that GM? Can't remember. If you haven't got your gold then, to me, you risk losing it, period. Wherever it is. Some dickwit like Brown and co could easily change the rules regarding legality of owning gold/silver. That is always in my mind despite all the blah blah about it not being possible. With those dudes running our world ANYTHING is possible and probable. Look how the fool sold our gold at the bottom. Golden brown lalala. Same goes for CGT exempt Britts and things. I just dont believe they'll let you off so easily. If the going gets bad (and it is) then what is the point believing the current story. Hell they seem to make the rules and break the rules as they go along. Clueless and dangerous. I bet David Einhorns 390 mill worth is not in BV or GM. Ditto Mr Paulson's pile. Probably in Switzerland or HK by now.

 

As to ETF's then I have nothing to say other than the gold/silver is unlikely to be there or ever have been. When/should people want their physical it will make Northern Rock look like a teddy bears picnic. That or you'll get you gold coloured tungsten.

 

No what you need when buying quantities gold or silver is a good spade, a couple of hours and a little treasure map.

 

Regarding Jon Nadler. He writes very well and has always encouraged 10-15% in gold. As far as I can tell he just isnt paid to be gung ho on 'backing up the truck'. I have to confess to finding him quite funny-but I have to say I haven't bothered reading him for the past 6 months or so.

 

I should also confess up to thinking gold could well go down here (love my Prechter) temporarily but temper that with buying ridiculously priced sovereigns last week for 172 quid just in case RP has it all wrong, lets face it he has been wrong for about 6 years now. But that doesnt mean he will be wrong this time. Nor Mr Nadler. So who knows?

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Maybe over at BV people are pulling their gold out in physical? Wasn't there a lot of messy talk about 1kg bars minimum etc...or was that GM? Can't remember. If you haven't got your gold then, to me, you risk losing it, period. Wherever it is. Some dickwit like Brown and co could easily change the rules regarding legality of owning gold/silver. That is always in my mind despite all the blah blah about it not being possible. With those dudes running our world ANYTHING is possible and probable. Look how the fool sold our gold at the bottom. Golden brown lalala. Same goes for CGT exempt Britts and things. I just dont believe they'll let you off so easily. If the going gets bad (and it is) then what is the point believing the current story. Hell they seem to make the rules and break the rules as they go along. Clueless and dangerous. I bet David Einhorns 390 mill worth is not in BV or GM. Ditto Mr Paulson's pile. Probably in Switzerland or HK by now.

 

As to ETF's then I have nothing to say other than the gold/silver is unlikely to be there or ever have been. When/should people want their physical it will make Northern Rock look like a teddy bears picnic. That or you'll get you gold coloured tungsten.

 

No what you need when buying quantities gold or silver is a good spade, a couple of hours and a little treasure map.

 

Regarding Jon Nadler. He writes very well and has always encouraged 10-15% in gold. As far as I can tell he just isnt paid to be gung ho on 'backing up the truck'. I have to confess to finding him quite funny-but I have to say I haven't bothered reading him for the past 6 months or so.

 

I should also confess up to thinking gold could well go down here (love my Prechter) temporarily but temper that with buying ridiculously priced sovereigns last week for 172 quid just in case RP has it all wrong, lets face it he has been wrong for about 6 years now. But that doesnt mean he will be wrong this time. Nor Mr Nadler. So who knows?

 

I agree with you about BV - the convenience of instant sell/buy must be weighed against the risks of state intervention. My feeling is that clued-up small investors may now be choosing more physical at the expense of BV/Goldmoney or even ETFs.

 

It is all about trust (or lack of it) - in the state, banks and the law. Just has trust in the financial system as a whole has been reflected in the gold price, I think the change to holding physical is the next logical step and reflects even greater distrust.

 

Interestingly, if someone sold gold in BV/Goldmoney and then bought physical, it would not affect the price at all but I believe that there is a hidden 'trust bonus' attached to physical which although not visible at the moment, will show itself in the future.

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In other words, the POG may remain static because the 'lost trust quotient' is not being translated into rising prices but rather by buying physical.

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Looking at goldmoney's chart there doesn't seem to have been much of an increase on gold held this year. Silver has shown a steady increase during 09:

 

chart_gold_304_E.png

chart_silver_304_E.png

 

I'm just guessing, but the growth in silver ounces is probably more due to the fact that people are opting to buy it from GM where it's VAT-free!

Not to mention that on a 60:1 ratio, you would need to dig a far bigger hole to hide it in ;)

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Jesse Cafe Americain:

 

 

 

"Gold is performing an 'in your face' breakout and holding its gains into an option expiry next week which is wildly bullish. The target on the weekly is 1240ish, and one has to wonder if there will be enough of a pullback to allow the bears to cover their shorts before they are taken out on stretchers. It will take a severe correction in stocks to do it I suspect. But let's see."

 

I'm looking forward to next week.......

 

Nick

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Jesse Cafe Americain:

 

 

 

"Gold is performing an 'in your face' breakout and holding its gains into an option expiry next week which is wildly bullish. The target on the weekly is 1240ish, and one has to wonder if there will be enough of a pullback to allow the bears to cover their shorts before they are taken out on stretchers. It will take a severe correction in stocks to do it I suspect. But let's see."

 

I'm looking forward to next week.......

 

Nick

The cartel is growing less able to effect the outcome more each day it seems, as I have been pointing out for weeks it appears there is a commercial signal failure in progress. The gold cartel don't know how to handle these "new buyers" now on the scene, they are not able to do what they have been for years. They were just going shorter and shorter as the price went higher, then would dump some physical onto the market and bomb the paper market. In the end this would cause the spec longs to capitulate as he market was driven lower. The cartel would then cover and things would start again.

 

Now they are finding this harder and harder as the "new buyers" are actually countries and large hedge funds who are not being pushed around by the bully boy tactics. This can be seen by the action over the last few days, as they push the pice down the "new buyers" just say thank you very much and drive the price straight back up.

 

Monday certainly is going to be very interesting, it should start with another attempt but will IMO be overrun quiet quickly, then watch the fireworks as they have to cover in a rising market. :D

 

 

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On the other hand..

 

 

http://www.hardassetsinvestor.com/componen...oes-matter.html

 

Recent third quarter data from the World Gold Council showed that while gold supply fell 5%, demand (inclusive of investors) fell a much larger 34%.

 

Yet despite this negative disparity between supply and demand change, gold prices rose during the period.

 

Hard Assets Investor: Year-over-year demand has dropped in each of gold's three market segments: for investments, off 46 percent; for jewelry, down 30 percent; and for industrial use, off 11 percent.

 

Gold prices, however, have risen universally. In key markets such as India and Turkey, gold prices spiked 15 percent and 33 percent, respectively. In dollar terms, gold rose 12 percent year-over-year, while euro prices rose 11 percent.

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wth? Both metals have just gone straight up at the open.

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Gotta feel sorry for Goldman Sacs and the other shorts, on second thoughts :lol:

 

 

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f*** me! - $1161 already.

 

5 years ago a market open like this would put a smile on my face.

 

these days it makes me worry...

 

Options expiry tomorrow - shorts will be toasted.

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Well I certainly wouldn't go selling a core position or anything like that.

 

A massive thanks to cgnao, G0ldfinger, frizzers, Dr Bubb et al who all got me on to the Gold rocket early. For any small retail investor who is trying maintain his/her standard of living I would say trying to time or trade this market is unwise. If the last 12 months have taught us anything it is that buy and hold is most certainly NOT dead where gold is concerned. Those who tried to get clever trading into USD waiting for "the dip" have just missed out on the last 15-20% move by being unimpressed.

 

Psychologically its difficult but keep accumulating even at these all time highs!

I tend to agree with you if it was a matter of trading and chasing nominal gains. However, hedging your bullion postion by buying some dollars here is perfectly sensible... for those that are already seriously invested.

 

It makes sense if you think gold is vulnerable to a correction, and that you could make real gains by buying on that dip with the cash you have raised. This is not trading [or trying to be clever], where you look to make nominal profits, but being cautious and hedging against lower prices.

 

I wouldn't be buying here at these all times high.... but then that is because I am already seriously "invested" in gold ["interrogated" for Errol]. If I had no gold, I would be buying.

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I looked at the Gold price this a.m. and thought 'good heavens!'.

 

In recent weeks it has felt to me as if Gold fell early in the day when Tokyo etc. were trading and then recovered its losses and added new gains when NY was up and about.

 

If that is the case today, we'll get real fireworks! If it is reversed, then we might see an almighty smackdown later in the day. I really and truly can't decide which is more likely. Am I the only investor continually plagued by massive uncertainty?

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I'm not clever at these things, and my strategy is simple: when it doubles, I sell half. And as a stop-loss, when it halves I sell half. Perhaps I'm wrong, but I don't see how I can lose.

You can lose because you are accounting in fiat currency. While the nominal price in pounds might double, the real value might have just stayed the same, or have gone down.

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Am I the only investor* continually plagued by massive uncertainty?

The joys of trading. (*Investor, or trader?)

 

If it is reversed, then we might see an almighty smackdown later in the day. I really and truly can't decide which is more likely.

Why do you worry? There will always be a 'smackdown' at some stage.

 

Meanhwile, investors enjoy the fruits of their long term strategy:

http://gold.approximity.com/gold-silver_watch.html

Gold_USD_LOG_GUESS.png

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Interesting charts. That is a hell of alot of gold ounces James Turk holds at GM...He must be worth an absolute fortune...

It's not his gold.

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