GOLD

[G0ldfinger]

... I know the sovs and britannias are exempted from tax, but the spread is wider as well. Also, Kruggers are probably the coin that the most recognizable worldwide and always are easier to sell.

...

I've recently been buying more Sovereigns. The reason is that the premium is comparably small even for small quantities (7.5%, not 10%-12% like Britannias or Pandas), but they have the CGT advantage. Another advantage is that they are only 0.2354 ounces, i.e. you can sell them in very small quantities should the price ever go astronomic (or you can buy only half the supermarket, instead of buying the whole chain with a 1oz Kruger). Other coins in that size (1/4oz) usually carry a much higher premium.

[G0ldfinger]

...

Are people only holding these with the frame of mind that there is going to be a systematic banking failure or something, and that only these will be of any use in an apocalyptic senario?

 

I personally don't believe that would happen. That would be like the end of the world... every person on the planet's investments (pensions, cash etc.) gone!!! Would lead to riots, wars, total breakdown in society etc. Central banks would be more inclined to print money to prevent that happening, leading to hyper-inflation.

...

I think you're too pessimistic. Back in Germany in the 1920s, people where just happily pushing around their wheelbarows (full of worthless cash) to buy a loaf of bread or a bottle of milk. They where also very civilized and took the totally useless notes and used them as fuel in their stoves.

 

No total breakdown of civilization. Just a severe hickup (that lead to a total breakdown a couple of decades later, of course). Don't get scared by people like John "gold-will-go-down" Nadler who only recently said he would not like to live in a world with gold at $1,000. Has he committed suicide meanwhile, I wonder? Obviously, he was just (one more time) talking rubbish when he made this statement.

[qwerty]

Many people have simply can't see how much they're losing when the currency tanks. I myself only woke up to this when I started working outside my native country.

 

Is that what stimulated your interest in gold or was there a pre family history ?Just curious

 

 

 

Mine stemmed from my Grandfather who used to take me beachcombing as a kid laughing at all those with metal detectors on the beach.

 

He was an old fisherman and knew the tidal currents well like the back of his hand.

 

When the tide went out we would dig around the rocks and hey presto an earring,loads of useless stuff, maybe if you were lucky a ring a farthing or bit of silver wire or a copper penny.

He had tins of the useless stuff.

 

The good stuff as I remember was kept for a rainy day and the crap when there was enough went to the scrapman.

 

Strange that a man that never ever had a bank account or much money could understand the value of metals.

[Pluto]

I have approx 75% of my investments (ISA's and Pension) in Precious Metal ETF's (which comprise Gold, Silver, Platinum and Palladium).

The remainder is in mining funds.

Looking to invest April's ISA allowance into a Silver ETF

 

To be honest, I don't really know why I would WANT to buy physical bullion or coins.

Yes, they'd be nice to hold and look at.

Yes, they'd be another diversification of my investments.

 

But I am investing with the remit that investing in precious metals is a good way to MAKE money at the moment.... rather than buying the actual metals themselves and treating them AS money.

 

Are people only holding these with the frame of mind that there is going to be a systematic banking failure or something, and that only these will be of any use in an apocalyptic senario?

 

I personally don't believe that would happen. That would be like the end of the world... every person on the planet's investments (pensions, cash etc.) gone!!! Would lead to riots, wars, total breakdown in society etc. Central banks would be more inclined to print money to prevent that happening, leading to hyper-inflation.

 

So other than the risk of the ETF not being backed by the physical metals (which they say they are), surely at some point you have to convert your gold/silver bullion/coins back into fiat money in order to spend it?

 

So to come back to my original question, I think it is reading all the discussions about gold and world financial crisis events from various sources that is kind of "brainwashing" me into thinking I should hold some percentage of my wealth physical metals. In which case, yes I would only be treating them as an "investment".

 

Think of physical as an insurance policy that can be transferred to your heirs if you don't cash it in, as apposed to an outright investment. I hope I don't need to cash mine in, but if I do I am prepared.

[G0ldfinger]

...Krugerrands are generally cheapest (22carrat gold, copper coloured but still contain 1 ounce of gold) maples are 9999 gold so they look like gold. Britannias are more expensive.

...

Here are a 1oz Britannia, a Maple Leaf and a Krugerrand. One can clearly see the differences in colour and size. One can also see that the fine gold coin is much more scratched than the others (although, they obviously differ in age anyway, but still).

[wren]

For coins the buy-sell spread is lowest for good, old (and some say ugly) Krugerrands.

 

But word is that sovs and britannias are clean of of CGT in the UK (I live abroad, so no such luck) but with smaller amounts that perhaps isn't a issue.

 

If I lived in the UK and if I were buying coins at sub 5k quantities, I would go for sovs and britannias anyway (they might change the tax laws).

 

So, to make up for my usual unusefulness here's some music.

 

From the Old Gold Thread I remembered this fun musical video about Krugerrands:

 

[G0ldfinger]

Is that what stimulated your interest in gold or was there a pre family history ?Just curious

Mostly, yes. But my father always had a few coins, and has now gotten more interested in it again.

 

...

Strange that a man that never ever had a bank account or much money could understand the value of metals.

I think it is BECAUSE he had no bank account that he valued the metal so much. Interesting though that gold can be found on the beach. I would think it would sink instantly to the ground or sink deeper into the sand.

[qwerty]

Mostly, yes. But my father always had a few coins, and has now gotten more interested in it again.

 

 

I think it is BECAUSE he had no bank account that he valued the metal so much. Interesting though that gold can be found on the beach. I would think it would sink instantly to the ground or sink deeper into the sand.

 

 

A Farthing

 

 

http://24carat.co.uk/farthingsindxframe.html

[Compounded]

Many people have simply can't see how much they're losing when the currency tanks. I myself only woke up to this when I started working outside my native country.

 

Yes it has taken me a while to appreciate that a wad of notes is losing value all the time, must be years of indoctination that the pretty paper has value.

 

 

I've recently been buying more Sovereigns. The reason is that the premium is comparably small even for small quantities (7.5%, not 10%-12% like Britannias or Pandas), but they have the CGT advantage. Another advantage is that they are only 0.2354 ounces, i.e. you can sell them in very small quantities should the price ever go astronomic (or you can buy only half the supermarket, instead of buying the whole chain with a 1oz Kruger). Other coins in that size (1/4oz) usually carry a much higher premium.

 

I have almost exclusively krugers and sovereigns but like soveriegns best, a real historic coin at very little extra cost. I suppose its because so many were made. I understand they did not circulate much because of the high value a bit like £50 notes now so I suppose they would not wear out much.

[qwerty]

duplicate post

[Pluto]

The credit crunch really doesn't begin to describe the problems facing the world banking system. As the telegraph clearly states the credit crunch is entering a new phase listing the usual "turds" of the banking industry: UBS, Barclays, Royal Bank of Scotland, Fortis and HBOS. Of course they are delaying marking to market their assets as this will show everyone that this is indeed a solvency problem crisis as well as a liquidity one. Fatty Brown needs to make arrangements to Nationalize the whole UK banking sector - alla Northern Rock.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtm.../cnbanks109.xml

 

"There's a definite shift in belief that the uncertainty in the markets over the value of these assets can't go on. A new phase in the crisis is starting in which facing the reality that these assets are not going to recover in price - but there's resistance because it could be even more painful."

[qwerty]

Yes it has taken me a while to appreciate that a wad of notes is losing value all the time, must be years of indoctination that the pretty paper has value.

 

Bette Midler had it all figured out .One of my favorite stories.

 

http://www.gold-eagle.com/editorials_05/ash110607.html

 

Last time the US Dollar sank beneath the weight of low-yielding Treasury bonds, soaring oil prices and a looming recession, Bette Midler - the comedienne and singer - famously demanded that her $600,000 fee for a European tour in 1978 be paid in South African gold coins.

[wren]

duplicate

[wren]

I'm not quite old enough to have used a farthing coin in the shop when I was a wee boy. But I love the wren. (Okay I admit it might have been close; when were farthings removed from circluation?)

[qwerty]

A Farthing

 

 

 

 

 

 

http://24carat.co.uk/farthingstoryframe.html

 

The Wren Replaces Britannia

From the first farthings of George VI in 1937 to the very last farthing of 1956 during the reign of Elizabeth II, the wren, Britain's smallest bird, continued to be used on the farthing, Britain's smallest and lowest valued coin.

[wren]

So was it '56 when they were discontinued? Well before my time in that case, honest. But among a random mishmash of old coins knocking around at home I remember a couple of farthings (nice design if I might so say so myself ) and an old 1901 well worn penny with the Old Queen. Was it a worn coin or what!

 

Okay, now that we're talking money, or better to say coins, I shall 'fess up. I remember well the day that the old money changed to the new. And yes, we were fortunate enough that our parents had previously given us these boxed sets of the new coins (which later got spent on sweets no doubt). They had some new-fangled coins which would run alongside the old, the time-period I don't remember being a young, sweet-eating general horror at the time.

 

On the very day dad came home from work (we lived in New Malden, Kingston, so he having walked from Berrylands station) and just putting his jacket in the wardrobe, I goes "Dad, Dad, have you got any of the new money?" He then reached into his jacket pocket and said there you go. It was a fifty-pence piece! like a whole ten bob!

 

Blimey, the most I'd ever possessed before was half a crown (12.5 p). The sweet-shop had extra business for a couple of days.

 

In fairness to my dad he did know what he was giving me and it was a special day.

====

 

As an aside.

 

This is for bagpipe connoisseurs only (be warned!). Robert Watt playing "The Vaunt":

Robert Watt - on YouTube

(In honour of my Dad, a Glaswegian.)

[Steve Netwriter]

They talk of moving from pounds to euros to dollars to pound then swiss francs. They are going to make some FX firm very rich.

 

No mention of what the best currency to go for was.......Yen

[ologhai]

I had a dream last night that I was chatting with a few other people about gold and gold prices.

 

I can't now remember who most of the people were, but one was Margaret Thatcher, and she said that the £ was strong and she didn't expect that the gold price would go up much more.

 

So, now you know!

[azazel]

I had a dream last night that I was chatting with a few other people about gold and gold prices.

 

I can't now remember who most of the people were, but one was Margaret Thatcher, and she said that the £ was strong and she didn't expect that the gold price would go up much more.

 

So, now you know!

 

Thats your inner self being paranoid because you just plucked up the courage to buy some gold You will no doubt feel different with a bit of profit behind you.

[azazel]

Here are a 1oz Britannia, a Maple Leaf and a Krugerrand. One can clearly see the differences in colour and size. One can also see that the fine gold coin is much more scratched than the others (although, they obviously differ in age anyway, but still).

 

I think the Britannia's are the nicest designed coins but I prefer the pure gold colour of the maple although you would have to treat them with care as they are, as you say, softer. Also the alloyed coins tarnish a bit.

[ConvertedGoldBug]

Ok, just having a browse around CoinInvestDirect.com

 

I'm a total newbie when it comes to real physical precious metals (as mentioned in my previous posts).

 

So just as an example, can someone explain to me the difference between the following:-

 

1oz gold bullion bar (31.10 Gramm)

999/1000 purity

£479.02

 

1oz South African Krugerrand 1 Ounce 2008 (SPECIAL) (31.10 Gramm)

917/1000 purity

£481.89

 

 

The Krugerrand is a couple of pounds more expensive than the bullion bar, however it also seems less purity.

 

Is the coin more expensive just because it is a coin (i.e. money)?

Or is it because of it's "collectable" status?

 

I presume it'd be easier to spend a coin than a bullion bar in the shops, even though they are both just Gold?

 

Or have I missed something?

[narco]

The Krugerrand is a couple of pounds more expensive than the bullion bar, however it also seems less purity.

 

Is the coin more expensive just because it is a coin (i.e. money)?

Or is it because of it's "collectable" status?

A Kruger contains exactly 1 ounce of pure 24 carat fine gold. Exactly the same as a maple of any other 1 ounce bullion coin.

 

The reason it is classed as 22 carat is due to 'additional' copper to provide a more durable finish. This is why Krugers are larger than maples.

[azazel]

Ok, just having a browse around CoinInvestDirect.com

 

I'm a total newbie when it comes to real physical precious metals (as mentioned in my previous posts).

 

So just as an example, can someone explain to me the difference between the following:-

 

1oz gold bullion bar (31.10 Gramm)

999/1000 purity

£479.02

 

1oz South African Krugerrand 1 Ounce 2008 (SPECIAL) (31.10 Gramm)

917/1000 purity

£481.89

 

 

The Krugerrand is a couple of pounds more expensive than the bullion bar, however it also seems less purity.

 

Is the coin more expensive just because it is a coin (i.e. money)?

Or is it because of it's "collectable" status?

 

I presume it'd be easier to spend a coin than a bullion bar in the shops, even though they are both just Gold?

 

Or have I missed something?

 

The prices you are looking at is the price they will buy them back from you. The price you pay is the Brutto price. On silver items you will see there is an ex VAT price also.

[G0ldfinger]

...

Is the coin more expensive just because it is a coin (i.e. money)?

Or is it because of it's "collectable" status?

...

1oz coins are more expensive than 1oz bars because the are more 'recognizable'. Everyone (with a little interest in gold) knows the Krugerrand, while not everyone knows every assayer and how their bars look like etc.

 

In general the more common coins (Krugerrands) are cheaper than less common ones. That might be due to collectability, scarcer/nicer implies higher price.

[Errol]

An ounce of gold is an ounce of gold. It matters very little what is stamped on the front or what form it takes.

 

I quite like these though: