GOLD

[romans holiday]

[Carlton]

^^ He is risen!

 

Nice seeing you, Romans.

[romans holiday]

^^ He is risen!

 

Nice seeing you, Romans.

Cheers, amazing what you can find scratching around in the "catacombs". Happy Easter all.

[Pixel8r]

 

That chart is very misleading as actually in that timeframe silver has risen from around $5 to $47 which is over 9 times, while gold has gone from around $350 to $1500 which is around 4.3 times.

 

So in fact silver has already outperformed gold in this bull run by over double, your chart makes it appear that silver has just caught up with gold, especially as it doesn't include the silver prices.

[marceau]

Which ones? Go on, spill!

 

Almost certain on dow/gold going far beyond 1:1. I can see at time where equities will be hit by a long lasting (govt bailouts will no longer be an option) double whammy: no yield as companies scrap divis to survive, and an impossible to calculate NAV due to false accounting and currency choas. Many firms will struggle to prove they have any value as an asset whatsoever, and this will drag down all equities (commodities aside) regardless of quality. I see DOW:gold going to 2 or even 3:1.

 

Also pretty sure housing will go lower than 50 gold ounces for similar reasons, but it may take a couple of decades to get there.

 

As for silver:anything - not a clue, can't figure the damn stuff out. All I know for sure is that 1000 ounce bars take up an awful lot of space.

[marceau]

Buying a farm that the previous owners found hard to make profitable seems unwise. I dont know what you would do with it until a change in the cycle comes and makes farming more profitable and the business of higher value.

 

 

My response would be pretty much what Victor said, farming looks like it's at the bottom of it's cycle. From what I can see agriculture is in an unusually depressed state and prices would be at historic lows were it not for the effects of speculation on land values. There will be nothing but upwards pressure on real food prices (funny money regardless) over the long term. Factor in the inflationary path we've taken an farmland looks like a good bet, it'll be hard not to make money against a backdrop of rising prices.

 

My main concern is when to buy. If, as I've assumed, farmland has been affected by general speculative trends, it may become cheaper still over the next 5 years. The problem is that it's already being treated as if it was 'gold with a yield', so prices may never take that dip that I'm looking for.

 

At the moment I prefer uranium, it's just had a once in a lifetime haircut and (you'll have heard this before) none of the reasons I wanted to invest in it in the first place have changed. Other than the usual physical PMs, almost all of my purchases this year have been (and will probably continue to be) uranium miners.

[electroweak]

 

 

Gold getting a bit expensive to buy. This little lot took a couple of weeks in the rivers of South Island, New Zealand. Was hard yakka, will have to buy a detector and go for nuggets next time in Central Otago.

Good to see ya, RH! - and that you had some success. You use a sluice or just panning? How are you back and hands?

[electroweak]

Almost certain on dow/gold going far beyond 1:1. I can see at time where equities will be hit by a long lasting (govt bailouts will no longer be an option) double whammy: no yield as companies scrap divis to survive, and an impossible to calculate NAV due to false accounting and currency choas. Many firms will struggle to prove they have any value as an asset whatsoever, and this will drag down all equities (commodities aside) regardless of quality. I see DOW:gold going to 2 or even 3:1.

 

Also pretty sure housing will go lower than 50 gold ounces for similar reasons, but it may take a couple of decades to get there.

 

As for silver:anything - not a clue, can't figure the damn stuff out. All I know for sure is that 1000 ounce bars take up an awful lot of space.

You are right about silver being bulky; but I am not letting loose with my bars until the ratio Silver/Gold gets to the low 20's at least. I have been swapping some GM silver to gold lately, though. Perhaps that will turn out to be a bad idea, but my ultimate aim was always to convert to gold eventually, and a 5-bagger is not to be sniffed at when I had about 30% of my liquid worth in it from the start.

 

I think my long-term aim will be to slowly average out of gold into the 'new' economy after the existing system has failed. There will be productive businesses and reliable debt issuers in the future I am sure, but to me, we need a "great cleansing" before I come out of the bunker - and that cleansing now has to go as far up as sovereign debt and currencies.

 

Farmland and maybe woodland are two possibilities, but that will definitely have to wait until after the governments have decided to tax the cr*p out of everything and failed. I would not want large-value immovable assets like a farm or a wood sitting in plain view of the tax people.

[marceau]

 

Farmland and maybe woodland are two possibilities, but that will definitely have to wait until after the governments have decided to tax the cr*p out of everything and failed. I would not want large-value immovable assets like a farm or a wood sitting in plain view of the tax people.

 

 

Yeah, that's another problem, government taking something profitable and strangling it. They really never learn, do they?

 

The difference with farmland is that we already have draconian EU policy, so this may be as bad as it gets, short of full nationalisation (and I doubt any western governement would have the stomach to do that, given the consistent historical record of such actions - deaths in the millions).

[Schaublin]

Indeed, but what is the next asset class?

 

I do not know what the next asset class will be but I believe that the future will be about food.

 

Farming in the UK seems to be uneconomical due to a variety of factors but in my opinion mainly because of the over priced GBP and the supermarket's strategy of screwing down the price paid to producers. As others have pointed out, farmland is hard to hide when the state thieves come looking for a way to milk some more tax. Also, it is worth taking note that intensive use of nitrogen fertilisers has ruined much of the soil.

Having said that, people have to eat and with increasingly expensive imported oil and fertiliser, food will become ever more expensive.

 

Niche markets can provide real returns even in a collapse. Steel doors which open outwards were bought in their millions in Russia in the early 90s...

[d2thdr]

I do not know what the next asset class will be but I believe that the future will be about food.

 

Farming in the UK seems to be uneconomical due to a variety of factors but in my opinion mainly because of the over priced GBP and the supermarket's strategy of screwing down the price paid to producers. As others have pointed out, farmland is hard to hide when the state thieves come looking for a way to milk some more tax. Also, it is worth taking note that intensive use of nitrogen fertilisers has ruined much of the soil.

Having said that, people have to eat and with increasingly expensive imported oil and fertiliser, food will become ever more expensive.

 

Niche markets can provide real returns even in a collapse. Steel doors which open outwards were bought in their millions in Russia in the early 90s...

 

 

 

There is enough food for everyone on this planet. But not as it has been consumed. Too much waste in west. Too much little in Africa. Can not go on. Meat will be extremely expensive in the future at todays rate of consumption.

[azazel]

I do not know what the next asset class will be but I believe that the future will be about food.

 

Farming in the UK seems to be uneconomical due to a variety of factors but in my opinion mainly because of the over priced GBP and the supermarket's strategy of screwing down the price paid to producers. As others have pointed out, farmland is hard to hide when the state thieves come looking for a way to milk some more tax. Also, it is worth taking note that intensive use of nitrogen fertilisers has ruined much of the soil.

Having said that, people have to eat and with increasingly expensive imported oil and fertiliser, food will become ever more expensive.

 

Niche markets can provide real returns even in a collapse. Steel doors which open outwards were bought in their millions in Russia in the early 90s...

 

I have this idea that people would rather eat local natural food from the growers and that the supermarkets can be bypassed, a farmers co-operative if you like. A scaleable buisness perhaps. You could even invest in farmland by buying some of the land, a bit like bullion vault. When the time comes I will buy a farm....

[Compounded]

Anecdotal

 

The old lady who owned my parents house had an acre of apple trees they yielded £200 a year in the 2nd WW from them to convert a car cost £80 then and a house £500 by my reckoning that's approx £40k pa in today's money.

 

My dad felt that was right as he says food was very expensive in the war in spite of the rationing.

 

If you have a garden forget the wisteria and cedar and plant some food producing trees is so simple now and it will make a real difference if an economic collapse does come.

[Gatesy]

Anecdotal

 

The old lady who owned my parents house had an acre of apple trees they yielded £200 a year in the 2nd WW from them to convert a car cost £80 then and a house £500 by my reckoning that's approx £40k pa in today's money.

 

My dad felt that was right as he says food was very expensive in the war in spite of the rationing.

 

If you have a garden forget the wisteria and cedar and plant some food producing trees is so simple now and it will make a real difference if an economic collapse does come.

 

My neighbours currenty give me kilos of apples for free in the autumn to make chutney. They can't give em away to most people. Perhaps in the future they wil see a return to scrumping..

 

edit: by the way I didn't mean the urban dictionary's definition of scrumping which I had never heard of until just now!

 

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=scrumping&defid=581935

[Errol]

“What the so-called silver experts neglect to account for in their models and projections is that the fiat money experiment has failed. And in this context, we believe the Market has assigned world reserve currency status to gold — not the USD”

 

Eric Sprott and Andrew Morris: Follow the money into silver

 

http://www.gata.org/node/9827

[G0ldfinger]

I am bahaack.

 

I see silver almost got to $50.

 

I see the Gold:Silver ratio went down to 30.5.

 

Hmmm. I haven't sold a single grain of silver yet.

 

No doubt, this is a good start. I am overweight silver, so I might swap some for gold, but I have a lot of reading to do now, and no time really...

[azazel]

welcome back GF. You were missed! I would have thought that silver would breach $50 before a losing 30% in consolidation before moving higher in the public awareness phase. I see that adverts are appearing in America trying to sell gold and silver to the public but I have not really noticed any in Britain yet. Whats it like in Germany, I know many have an interest there.

[VictorBroom]

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/

[G0ldfinger]

welcome back GF. You were missed! I would have thought that silver would breach $50 before a losing 30% in consolidation before moving higher in the public awareness phase. I see that adverts are appearing in America trying to sell gold and silver to the public but I have not really noticed any in Britain yet. Whats it like in Germany, I know many have an interest there.

I'd say general inflation awareness is higher than in the US (maybe than in the UK), especially since the EUR introduction and because of engrained hyperinflation stories. General exposure to PMs is maybe not better than in the US or UK. Lots of talking, and no actions by many IMHO.

[d2thdr]

Dear friends,

 

Please take note of the following message.

 

 

This message relates to crime no DE/11/3729. We are getting an increasing

number of reports of catalytic converters being stolen from parked vehicles.

Up till recently commercial vehicles were being targeted but now private

vehicles as well are having catalytic converters stolen. This is because of

the precious metals they contain. Please consider where you leave your

vehicle overnight, if you have a choice. A garage is obviously best, then a

well lit area or somewhere which is busy.Please pass this message on to

colleagues, friends and neighbours. The more people on the alert the better.

Please phone us with any information on 08452 777 444. Do not reply to this

email address as this in an unmanned account.

Thankyou for your continued support of the Community Messaging System.

 

 

 

**************************************************************

Devon & Cornwall Police aims to serve the communities

of Devon & Cornwall and help inspire greater confidence in the

Police. For more information please visit our website at

www.devon-cornwall.police.uk

[G0ldfinger]

Gold still to be had early 2009 prices.

 

http://gold.approximity.com/since2008/DJIA-Gold-Ratio.html

[electroweak]

Gold still to be had early 2009 prices.

 

http://gold.approximity.com/since2008/DJIA-Gold-Ratio.html

 

Any more clues on the distant future exit strategy?

[Errol]

Any more clues on the distant future exit strategy?

 

Think about that when gold is $10000+ (I'm not joking).

[electroweak]

Think about that when gold is $10000+ (I'm not joking).

Oh, don't worry. $5000 is only time to begin to wake up. $10000in today's money and we might be talking. I am just interested to know how one 'values' gold for example which ratios apart from $USD:GOLD SILV:GOLD and DJIA:GOLD ?

[romans holiday]

Oh, don't worry. $5000 is only time to begin to wake up. $10000in today's money and we might be talking. I am just interested to know how one 'values' gold for example which ratios apart from $USD:GOLD SILV:GOLD and DJIA:GOLD ?

Shouldn't it more be a question on how one values money per se? Obviously money is not an end in itself, and merely performs the function of postponing consumption. At some point one would naturally want to swap money for real goods [unless you want to pass it on to the future generation]. Wouldn't this swap of money for real goods trump purely economic considerations? God forbid we become misers.