Kapouillax Posted December 21, 2011 Report Share Posted December 21, 2011 the crazier the theory the less evidence some people seem to require to believe it, its moronic. Well, there's a twist. The essence of those "theories" is that they are, by definition not verifiable by their intricate secrecy: - Mysterious and super powerful secret societies that control the world so well nobody can possibly know about them. - Covert ops operations of nation X to support event Y. (CIA blowing up the twin towers) - Shy fairies that will hide if there's any chance for them to be spotted. (No, I will not make any mention of religion ) Do you have any factual evidence against the existence of invisible fairies? I don't! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
callmejoe Posted December 21, 2011 Report Share Posted December 21, 2011 Jim Willie interview http://sgtreport.com/2011/12/must-listen-jim-willie-sgtreport-exclusive/ This is a must listen. The price for physical gold is about $200+ over the paper variety. Part 1 – Jim Willie:’20 Lehmans Flash Event & Libyan Gold’ Jim Willie of GoldenJackass.com is here to talk in his uniquely no-bull style about a 20-Lehmans ‘Flash Event’, the Libyan gold, the Comex shortage, the MF Global farce & Global Quantitative Easing to infinity… Buckle up. Also, read Jim Willie’s latest piece, Pathogenesis of Central Bank Ruin. Part 2 – Jim Willie: ‘Comex Shortage & the MF Global Farce’ Part 3 – Jim Willie: ‘Operation Twist & Global Quantitative Easing’ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philder Posted December 21, 2011 Report Share Posted December 21, 2011 Well, there's a twist. The essence of those "theories" is that they are, by definition not verifiable by their intricate secrecy: - Mysterious and super powerful secret societies that control the world so well nobody can possibly know about them. - Covert ops operations of nation X to support event Y. (CIA blowing up the twin towers) - Shy fairies that will hide if there's any chance for them to be spotted. (No, I will not make any mention of religion ) Do you have any factual evidence against the existence of invisible fairies? I don't! No evidence to support theory = "they" are suppressing it! Evidence disproving your theory = "they" are hoaxing it, don't believe what you read, "they would say that..." It's genius really. Annoyingly, it only serves to detract from the genuinely interesting areas of discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackPepper Posted December 21, 2011 Report Share Posted December 21, 2011 No one has the exact numbers. But to me it makes a lot of sense that most gold was produced in modern times. Peak oil will mean peak gold IMHO. Also, that someone holds gold for the past 200 years (a very old someone indeed!) and now in the biggest paper money crisis ever will suddenly show up and dump it all at once is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. It is right up there with lizzard men, Elvis being alive and Michael Jackson being an alien (although, I regard the latter two as more likely :lol:). Even funnier that there are people who believe such things but don't acknowledge how central banksters and bullion banksters mess around with gold. Yes totally agree with your sentiments, I think where you and I have our differences in reference to gold prior to the 1800's is there is no true accounting as regards to the existing gold not gold that is being produced. You really would not know if wealthy Dynasty's hoarded private stashes prior to the reference point 1800. So perhaps it is not so far fetched as you think Okay but doesn't the goldbug prophecies regarding the impending "paper money crisis" sound just as rediculous as anything else you get on the net? I mean imagine say you lived in the UK (hey I am citizen of that cold miserable shithole) with a population that is unable to produce enough food to feed itself, then the paper currencies collapse, people panic, how are you going to survive? The last performance we saw on TV when they started to implement mild austerity measures the population set the place on fire and looted the place silly. Imagine that on a grand scale! Or do you feel that everyone will act civilized and you will able to walk down to the market and say "I say old Chap, you willing to trade some gold for that bread?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackPepper Posted December 21, 2011 Report Share Posted December 21, 2011 No evidence to support theory = "they" are suppressing it! Evidence disproving your theory = "they" are hoaxing it, don't believe what you read, "they would say that..." It's genius really. Annoyingly, it only serves to detract from the genuinely interesting areas of discussion. Yes annoyingly biased areas of discussion, and easily irritated when someone goes against the tide of belief. I have an open mind like the sky I see daily big and blue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
50sQuiff Posted December 22, 2011 Report Share Posted December 22, 2011 Yes totally agree with your sentiments, I think where you and I have our differences in reference to gold prior to the 1800's is there is no true accounting as regards to the existing gold not gold that is being produced. You really would not know if wealthy Dynasty's hoarded private stashes prior to the reference point 1800. So perhaps it is not so far fetched as you think Okay but doesn't the goldbug prophecies regarding the impending "paper money crisis" sound just as rediculous as anything else you get on the net? I mean imagine say you lived in the UK (hey I am citizen of that cold miserable shithole) with a population that is unable to produce enough food to feed itself, then the paper currencies collapse, people panic, how are you going to survive? The last performance we saw on TV when they started to implement mild austerity measures the population set the place on fire and looted the place silly. Imagine that on a grand scale! Or do you feel that everyone will act civilized and you will able to walk down to the market and say "I say old Chap, you willing to trade some gold for that bread?" The wealthy dynasties' gold had to be dug out of the ground at some point. The historical and archaeological record seems to suggest that they managed to dig out relatively little. Gold won't help you during social breakdown. Neither will your pension, premium bonds or BP shares. That's not why any sane 'gold bug' buys gold and it's a really strange argument to make. I always wonder what the sceptic's point is when they make it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackPepper Posted December 22, 2011 Report Share Posted December 22, 2011 The wealthy dynasties' gold had to be dug out of the ground at some point. The historical and archaeological record seems to suggest that they managed to dig out relatively little. Gold won't help you during social breakdown. Neither will your pension, premium bonds or BP shares. That's not why any sane 'gold bug' buys gold and it's a really strange argument to make. I always wonder what the sceptic's point is when they make it. Yes Agree, gold had to be dug out at some point, and the amount reflected in historical data does suggest very little but that does not really prove that there was not much gold in existence as per population, but yes a valid point. There is a lot of nonsense floating around on the internet, but there must be some motivation for doing so. It's great to see strong debate. But I don't think gold is a scarce as some would like you to believe. Rumours of rumours based on fear distorts price. I have read many Goldbug theories/prophecies and some are very sane and some not. There are those who like to hoard gold as a protection against possible wealth errosion on the assumption or belief of a hyper-inflationary outcome where fiat/paper currency will become almost worthless. But I am sitting in the deflation camp unless otherwise convinced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted December 22, 2011 Report Share Posted December 22, 2011 There are those who like to hoard gold as a protection against possible wealth errosion on the assumption or belief of a hyper-inflationary outcome where fiat/paper currency will become almost worthless. But I am sitting in the deflation camp unless otherwise convinced. Ian Gordon is a deflationist and a gold bull. I don't think it is one or the other. You can be a gold bull and or deflationist/hyperinflationist. He sees global fiat going to zero. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G0ldfinger Posted December 22, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 22, 2011 The wealthy dynasties' gold had to be dug out of the ground at some point. The historical and archaeological record seems to suggest that they managed to dig out relatively little. Wealth 'dynasty' usually also always means wealth 'dilution' to an extent, as they reproduce like little bunnies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G0ldfinger Posted December 22, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 22, 2011 Okay but doesn't the goldbug prophecies regarding the impending "paper money crisis" sound just as rediculous as anything else you get on the net? No, because the crisis is not impending, we're in it! A fiat money crisis goes through several stages - not necessarily through all if the politicos and banksters get their act together (which I won't think they'll be able to do this time). Two important bigger stages are: (1) paper money loses property of being store of value, (2) paper money loses property of being means of exchange. (1) means impoverishment of many, which is tragic for them, but not necessarily for you. (2) means breakdown of the economy and hence society, which usually is a problem for everyone. Both of these come gradually, and we are definitely still in the middle of phase 1. The smart money has understood already (because they grasp the concept of negative real interest etc. and gold's monetary function) while J6P will watch total destruction of his wealth before truly understanding. Phase 2 is clearly not here yet, as there is no problem yet with the, say, 1-week period it takes you to convert bullion into cash, move it around the globe, and pay a bill. Once you lose a greater percentage of your wealth during that transfer, we're deep in phase 2, and the real breakdown starts. Then it is that you'll better have some gold bullion on hand. Still you want larger amounts to be safe, and not near the rubble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G0ldfinger Posted December 22, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 22, 2011 There is a lot of nonsense floating around on the internet, but there must be some motivation for doing so. Irrationality. Superstition. A false sense of importance. But I am sitting in the deflation camp unless otherwise convinced. Which of your necessities have gone down in price over the past 5 years and by how much? I'd really like to work in a hyper-deflation country on a fixed income. Can anyone point me in the right direction? The UK? -6% RPI, right? Or, wait, was it +?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Errol Posted December 22, 2011 Report Share Posted December 22, 2011 Bullish & Bearish Arguments For Precious Metals in 2012 - http://profitimes.com/free-articles/bullish-bearish-arguments-for-precious-metals-in-2012/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackPepper Posted December 22, 2011 Report Share Posted December 22, 2011 No, because the crisis is not impending, we're in it! A fiat money crisis goes through several stages - not necessarily through all if the politicos and banksters get their act together (which I won't think they'll be able to do this time). Two important bigger stages are: (1) paper money loses property of being store of value, (2) paper money loses property of being means of exchange. (1) means impoverishment of many, which is tragic for them, but not necessarily for you. (2) means breakdown of the economy and hence society, which usually is a problem for everyone. Both of these come gradually, and we are definitely still in the middle of phase 1. The smart money has understood already (because they grasp the concept of negative real interest etc. and gold's monetary function) while J6P will watch total destruction of his wealth before truly understanding. Phase 2 is clearly not here yet, as there is no problem yet with the, say, 1-week period it takes you to convert bullion into cash, move it around the globe, and pay a bill. Once you lose a greater percentage of your wealth during that transfer, we're deep in phase 2, and the real breakdown starts. Then it is that you'll better have some gold bullion on hand. Still you want larger amounts to be safe, and not near the rubble. Yes thanks again, totally appreciate your insight, Keep this up, and I will be singing the same tune! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Errol Posted December 23, 2011 Report Share Posted December 23, 2011 We fully expect the correlation arbs, which usually need someone to point out the glaringly obvious to them before they encode given relationships and correlation pairs into buy and sell signals, will very soon comprehend why the one most underpriced asset at this point, by orders of magnitude, is gold. http://www.zerohedge.com/news/fed-vs-ecb-presenting-correlation-2012-and-what-it-means-gold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
callmejoe Posted December 23, 2011 Report Share Posted December 23, 2011 Jim Willie interview http://sgtreport.com/2011/12/must-listen-jim-willie-sgtreport-exclusive/ This is a must listen. The price for physical gold is about $200+ over the paper variety. Jim Willie: Negative Lease Rates for Gold Due to Stolen Libyan Gold—- ————— Back on March 22nd, when NATO was first deploying a “no-fly-zone” over Libya, The Doc suggested that the Libyan campaign was all about Gaddafi’s 143 tonnes of GOLD, rather than oil. Jim Willie validates that conclusion in his latest Hat Trick Letter, stating that recent central bank gold dumps and negative lease rates are in fact Gadaffi (Libya) ’s gold being dumped on the market in a desperate last ditch attempt to control precious metals prices. The gold cartel has benefited significantly from the fresh Libyan gold supply (144 metric tons) and Greek gold supply (111 metric tons), not to mention the ample Dollar Swap Facility. It is the bankers New Gold, as reported by intrepid Jeff Neilson. In a fresh sign of bankster desperation, the lease rates for gold have been pushed down to net negative levels. The fresh supply from the two broken nations has greatly aided the COMEX, providing new cannon fodder. Perhaps more wars to liberate the oppressed can be conjured up, to release more tyrant wealth. It is not a coincidence that negative gold lease rates came when Libyan gold was made available (heisted) and when Italian sovereign bonds went into critical DEFCON mode. The gold supply helped to aid the lack of bond demand. Divergence between paper gold and physical gold price is happening, the process has begun. Actual physical shortages have kept the price up. The naked shorting of futures has kept the paper price down— http://news.goldseek.com/GoldenJackass/1324501200.php Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perishabull Posted December 23, 2011 Report Share Posted December 23, 2011 GDXJ GDXJ getting completely smoked. It hasn't been this low since mid-May 2010. Has anyone considered the "Ron Paul bid" on gold? If he gets Iowa and continues to increase in the polls it could encourage many to flock to gold en masse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G0ldfinger Posted December 23, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 23, 2011 I might not be able to post much over the next few days. So, ho-ho-hold on to your gold foil hat in 2012. Merry Christmas (to whom it may concern)! Ho-ho-hold! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azazel Posted December 23, 2011 Report Share Posted December 23, 2011 I might not be able to post much over the next few days. So, ho-ho-hold on to your gold foil hat in 2012. Merry Christmas (to whom it may concern)! Ho-ho-hold! Thanks for all your input over the years. 2012 looks like a spectacular ride on the PMs, best wishes to you and your family in the future. Regards, Az and family Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
50sQuiff Posted December 23, 2011 Report Share Posted December 23, 2011 Thanks for all your input over the years. 2012 looks like a spectacular ride on the PMs, best wishes to you and your family in the future. Regards, Az and family I second the honourable gentleman. All the best to you and your family over Christmas GF, and the same to our host and everyone that's contributed so much valuable information and insight these last few years. Roll on 2012. It's going to be interesting - 100% correct, guaranteed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huntergatherer Posted December 25, 2011 Report Share Posted December 25, 2011 Paulson Gold Fund Said to Lose 10.5% in 2011 Even as Metal Heads for Gain John Paulson, the billionaire money manager mired in the worst slump of his career, lost 10.5 percent in his Gold Fund this year even as the metal heads for its 11th straight annual gain, according to people familiar with the fund’s performance. Paulson & Co., based in New York, has lost money this year on investments including Citigroup Inc., Bank of America Corp. and Sino-Forest Corp., the Chinese forestry company accused by short-seller Carson Block of overstating timberland holdings. Paulson, 56, cut the so-called net exposure in his main hedge funds to 30 percent last month and reduced bullish bets across all his funds. Net exposure is calculated by subtracting the percentage of a hedge fund’s short positions, or bets on falling securities, from its longs, or wagers on rising stocks and bonds. Gold BUGS Index Gold has climbed 13 percent this year, holding onto gains after peaking at $1,891 an ounce on Aug. 22. The 17-company NYSE Arca Gold BUGS Index fell 11 percent as investors fled equities amid the turmoil caused by the European sovereign-debt crisis. http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-12-23/paulson-gold-fund-said-to-lose-10-5-in-2011-even-as-metal-heads-for-gain.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G0ldfinger Posted December 26, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 26, 2011 Let's hope the rich weak hands and manic traders throw their gold away so we can snap it up at bargain prices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manual labourer Posted December 26, 2011 Report Share Posted December 26, 2011 Target Silver at $18-$20, Gold at $1250-1400 GBP/USD 1.85 now that would be Merry Christmas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huntergatherer Posted December 26, 2011 Report Share Posted December 26, 2011 Target Silver at $18-$20, Gold at $1250-1400 GBP/USD 1.85 now that would be Merry Christmas Ghost of Christmas past more like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perishabull Posted December 26, 2011 Report Share Posted December 26, 2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manual labourer Posted December 27, 2011 Report Share Posted December 27, 2011 Ghost of Christmas past more like. BAH HUMBUG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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