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SECONDHAND Market in Makati - Data points

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SECONDHAND Market in Makati - Collecting Data points

Primary market (ie New Property) prices have zoomed higher and higher while Rents have not kept pace,
and in some cases, such as 3BR units in Makati & BGC rents have even turned lower.
So now Yields are falling, while developers keep pushing up the prices of New Properties.

iNesESL.png: Est. Gross Yield: 805x12/ 180,400 = 5.35%

Is it time to focus on the Secondary Market? (where prices are lower & yields are better)


Got some interesting data yesterday.  Found a rare sight: a property agent with an office
at street level on a nice Makati street (such offices are everywhere in Hong Kong, not in PH.)
She told us that she specialized in renting out residential properties to Corporations and
Expats.  She also handles Buying and Selling properties in the secondary market.

rockwell2.jpg

Rockwell is very nice.  But at P 325k+ psm for New, it is a expensive and a very long walk, or slow ride / drive to Makati's CBD

She was interested to show places like Rockwell (which have high prices & high commissions.)
When we informed her that we were looking for something much closer to GB, and also cheaper
and within a few minutes walk of her office. She said there is not much supply.  We asked why,
pointing out that there is a huge market for secondhand sales in Hong Kong and other global markets.  
She said that the older places in Makati are typically owned by Filipinos who have large families,
and will hold onto a property "for generations"
, with older people passing ownership on to children
or relatives.

act_15912.jpg

For those who want to be within 5-10 minutes walk of Greenbelt Mall.
She said that it might be easier to find newer buildings, like maybe five years old, where
people had bought them with the idea of reselling at a profits a few years after completion.

/ 2 /

860093-Medium-exterior.jpg : Shang Grand (completed 2006) Profile on Emporis

The agent reported to us a big jump in 2nd-hand prices at Shang Grand.
She said her own firm had sold a high floor unit at over P250k per sqm!  
That's a big advance on the P150k psm level that I had heard prices were offered just 1-2 yrs ago.
But not everything was over P200K, there was an older unit (Century Plaza?) which had been sold
 at P114k psm late last year.

In this thread, I am to collect some Data on secondary sales, & properties on offer,
to see if there really are some bargains available, and where they are.

(Interesting comments from the agent, & Food for thought!)

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Ayala PREMIER marketing... It's "For Keeps", not for income

That sums up the approach that Ayala has used in selling its High-end properties

FpfrhhO.jpg

I particularly like this delectable frame showing a man and a woman holding on to a balcony railing, looking down at our very modern city of skyscrapers and beautiful architecture. Voice over: “A realm all your own.”

PREMIER.

The single word alone gives you visions of what you would consider as the best and truly high-end.

Eunice Alejo, Ayala Land Premier marketing head, likened their projects to “a precious gem -- rare, being distinctive and found only in choice locations; clear, to represent quality; and brilliant, to represent aesthetic values.”

I caught this 60-second commercial on cable TV over the weekend, was thoroughly intrigued by it, and followed it on YouTube. The material is meant to attract the viewer, enticing him or her to further explore and get concrete details of the commercial’s promises.

The commercial is deliberately super-slow. The camera, you might say, “romances” each frame, heightened by the accompanying soft music in the background. You are delighted to concentrate on every frame.

Alejo explains the commercial’s gem symbol, “Our developments, like the precious gems, are those you keep and pass on because of their distinctiveness and value. Thus the line ‘For Keeps.’ We also aimed to address the blurry perception on luxury nowadays. We wanted to show our unpretentious way of owning the luxury segment, without saying that Ayala Land, through the Ayala Land Premier brand, owns this segment in the real estate category.”
 
 
haha.  reminds me of an advertising program from the UK some years ago
 
stella3.jpg : EXPENSIVE is part of the pitch; not everyone can afford it
"Reassuringly expensive" was the Stella Artois' advertising slogan in the United Kingdom from 1982 until 2007.
 
The idea was... you can prove your status as a discerning & wealthy person, by purchasing their expensive product.
 
But will this old attitude - towards Makati (& BGC) Condos - persist in the face of Rising Condo supply,
when so many new Condos are completed over the next few years??

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MORE Comments from the Viber Chat

DrB :

I have 2 or 3 friends buying property or considering to buy. They are finding much better value in the secondary market. But it takes some work to locate bargains

A: What type of property they are looking at?

DrB: Secondhand Condos

B: What location and whats their plan with it ?

DrB :

the Condos are in Makati, where you can easily pay p200k-300k for a new condo. And the prices they are seeing for secondhand are more like HALF : p100k-150K, depending on age, location. Hence the interest in secondhand.

B: Thats quite a big difference ... you talking of the same building or Makati in General ?

DrB:

On the NEW side, I am talking about buildings under construction by major developers. On the Secondhand side, I am talking about 5-10 year old buildings also built by similar quality developers - and which have a good reputation for management and maintenance. If you want to look at much older condos is fringe locations, you can find properties for sale at below P75k per sqm.

2/

I know of one recent case where the buyer nabbed a bargain in an old Makati condo at below P50k per sqm. But I regard that as a very rare bargain

 

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MORE on the Secondary market bargains in Salcedo.

4-bedroom-condo-for-sale-in-pines-peak-t

Peak Tower has residential & commercial units > KMC MAG profile

listing_1522651127_9635_2531.jpg

n8VkyBL.jpg : Old examples of interiors at Peak Tower


My friends are (yet) not bidding here - but here is one place PEAK TOWER (1995 Built) that might be attractive.

This building is on Leviste St, near Dela Costa
If you take P1M off the price for parking, you can find units Offered at P110-120K per sqm

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CLASSIC Luxury, large 3BR & 4BR units - also in Salcedo Village

4-bedroom-condo-for-sale-in-bel-air-metr

Avignon Tower has large 3BR and 4BR units, and is more luxurious than Peak Tower

Pricing Examples :

P25 Million / 323 sqm (4BR) = P 77.4 k per sqm (this pricing could be stale?)
P27 Million / 323 sqm (4BR) = P 83.6 k per sqm
P30 Million / 300 sqm (4BR) = P 100. k per sqm (Aug. 2017 ?)

Setting it apart from most condominium projects, Avignon Tower only has two unit types�three- and four-bedroom suites�per floor, designed especially for large families that dream of a home in the city. Avignon Tower�s three-bedroom units typically feature a den, four toilets and baths, and two maid�s quarters. Four-bedroom suites normally include a foyer, maid�s and driver�s rooms with own toilet and bath, and a utility room. Additional features include a parking garage and high-speed elevators. Unlike most residential condos, Avignon Tower has no amenities because of its mission to provide space and comfort. > source

Given the lack of amenities, it would have been expected to have low Association Fees per sqm. But the estimate is P95 psm, and it appears to be managed by an Ayala Land Premier affiliate

Location : dela Costa St. near RCBC Tower

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Bel-Air area, Salcedo side of Ayala Avenue.

Modern Monolith - with large 2 BR & 3 BM units of 160-161 sqm

act_25238.jpg

Elizabeth Place, H.V. Dela Costa Street in Salcedo Village, Makati City

Pricing Examples :
P19 Million / 161 sqm (2BR) = P 118.0 k per sqm. 30th fl
P22 Million / 160 sqm (3BR) = P 137.5 k per sqm.
P29 Million / 268 sqm (4BR?) = P 108.0 k per sqm. Penthouse

2-bedroom-condo-for-sale-in-bel-air-metr

The Cheapest of the three, at P19 Million comes with furniture and also a large aquarium

Elizabeth Place is a 36 level residential condominium designed with 3 levels of basement and 6 levels of podium parking also equipped with 3 high speed lifts and helipads. amenities includes Swimming pools, GYM, Childrens Play Room, function rooms and Convenience store.

The Location: Makati Central Business District. It is near Ateneo Professional School, Mapua and Lyceum. One Jeepney ride from and to Sen. Gil Puyat Avenue (Buendia) MRT and LRT Station. Near Makati Sports Club. It is near some of the known buildings in Makati such as RCBC Plaza, GT Tower, PBCom Tower.... The place is also near the Velasquez park where every Saturday there is a weekend market.

listing_1519697800_5599_5242.jpg

Smaller units at Elizabeth Place, like this one (studio with raised sleeping area) rent at P 40,000 / 42 = P 952 psm and another Furnished 1BR with sliding room separator at just P 30,000 / 42 = P 714 psm.

 

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Old Condo, with a great location on Perea Street

bldgimage.php?BuildingID=129&ImageID=242

Mayfair Mansions

bldgimage.php?BuildingID=129&ImageID=243

image.php?PropertyID=6604&ImageID=19727

> http://realityhomes.ph/property/6604-mayfair-mansion-legaspi-village-makati-city/

Above unit is a Rental
 
RENTAL units at Mayfair Mansions
BR's, bath, park : Asking- : Sqm : / Sqm- : Type , avail.
2BR +2ba, 1car : P60,000 : 130 : 461psm: FFurn,
2BR +2ba, 1car : P70,000 : 130 : 538psm: FFurn,
1BR +2ba, 1car : P60,000 :  90  : 667psm: FFurn, 6/28/18
1BR +2ba, 1car : P55,000 :  90  : 611psm: SemiF,

Built in 1979, Mayfair Mansion is conveniently located on Perea Street, right at the heart of Legaspi Village and only a short walk from the upscale boutiques, fine dining options, movie theaters and bars that make up the 5 Greenbelt malls and entertainment complex. There are also a myriad of local shops and restaurants along the local side streets providing a host of dining and convenience options. Mayfair Mansion is also located close to renowned Makati Medical Center and the Makati Central Business District.

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Interesting article in today's Business Insight, in its Property section

Condos of top developers lead secondary market

TABLE: Condos with the highest capital appreciation since launch

Project------------ : ---------------- : Launch: ----- / Launch: ----- /
----------------------- : Developer : Price : Year / Price : Year / Increase
AryaResidence: Arya---------- : P  83k : 2009 / P215k : 2017 / +160%
Serendra (W) - : AyalaPrem.: P108k : 2008 / P230k : 2017 / +113%
TRAG, @GrBelt: AyalaPrem.: P106k : 2003 / p225k : 2017 / +112%
Edades----------- : Rockwell--- : P130k : 2009 / P250k : 2017 / + 92%
Park Terraces  : AyalaPrem.: P160k : 2009 / P240k : 2017 / + 50%
============

Property Developer RE/MAX said that projects backed by big developers remain the top performing real estate assets in the Philippines as far as reselling goes.

Kenneth Stern, country mgr. for RE/MAX said that condos of top developers like Ayala Premier
and Rockwell performan best in the secondary market.
Arya's Green-certified Arya Residences in BGC was another top performer.

(Actually, I do not find these "Top Returns" very impressive, especially when you correct for currency losses backi into US Dollars.  Nearly all properties in Hong Kong, did far better than this since 2003, or 2008-9.

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Chicken or Egg?

There is a bit of a Chicken&Egg problem with the secondary market.
It is hard to generate solid demand when it is so hard to find out what is available,
and so hard to know what comparative values are.
Remember, it is not easy to buy, when you have no idea if you are overpaying.
Banks also find it hard to finance, since they have less confidence in the collateral values.
OLX seems to be one of the few places that friends of mine can see listings for secondary
market properties, at prices reflecting a the discount that many are looking for.

When you walk down the street in Makati or BGC you do not see estate agents with secondhand
properties listed in their windows.  Potential foreign buyers have asked me again and again:
How do I find secondary listings?  Maybe one of the big agents here should be brave enough
to put some listings in their windows.  I wonder how many of the mainland Chinese might
inquire, and even become buyers, if they saw some attractive properties for sale there.

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EXCERPTS

Carl said “don’t think for a second you will be able to sell. There is 0 market for reselling of used condos in Philippines.

...we’ve actually facilitated several of these resale transactions ourselves; so by now, we already know this firsthand.

THINGS THAT MAKE IT VERY HARD TO RESELL A CONDO UNIT

We’ve observed a few common factors that are present in condo properties that are just hard to sell. These are the following.

  • The selling price is not right

    When I was trying to liquidate my own investment property back in 2012, I had this very wrong assumption that my selling price was very competitive. After all, I checked the prevailing prices of comparable properties online and I offered mine at more than P200,000 lower...It was my naiveté that got me thinking that the P200k discount I offered would alone be compelling enough for prospect buyers to choose my offer over the others...

  • The payment terms demanded by the seller are not competitive

    When reselling a condo unit, it’s important to consider that the market right now is literally flooded with very easy payment schemes...

  • The property is not in the right place at the right time

    Location is always an important factor in real estate....

  • The quality of the property is just bad

    ...the quality of the property can have a serious impact on your asking price. The quickest way to compensate for this negative aspect of your property, would be to adjust your asking price appropriately.

    ==


We get contacted by many owners who, like Carl above, want to re-sell their condo units. Some of them, we take on the project and we are able to resell them successfully. But we turn most of them down. One of the most recurring factors that turns us off is the unrealistic and unreasonable terms of the seller, particularly the price. Many of them want to re-sell their units at prices almost the same or just slightly lower than what developers offer. And they don’t like having to deal with financing stuff.

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MAKATI. The rise and fall of Makati and a lot of "hot air".

 

Voila, to prove my point here is a recent ad that i just saw in  olx.ph

https://www.olx.ph/item/studio-for-sale-in-makati-ID8xKhJ.html

This is a MEGAWORLD studio unit, almost 41square meters that is being sold for PHP5Million.

This breaks down to PHP121,000 per square meters.

It is a MEGAWORLD condo, so no questions about quality here. Dressed up by OASIS interior design.

Such a price is UNIMAGINABLE in PASAY CITY.

 

The secondary market is very strong in PASAY and almost ABSENT in MAKATI.

 

bgc = Better Go  to the C(sea)

 

I have heard stories of other people who couldn't resell their preselling condo's in Makati

due to the lack of a resale market, and it goes on and on. Megaworld condo's that couldn't

even get sold at PHP150K per square meter. In Pasay you get PHP180K per square meters easily.

 

Makati is a lot of hot air and "past glory". 

 

 

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Hmm. That's not what I am seeing ECB !

I am seeing strong demand, and higher prices for secondary market sales at places like:

MAKATI : Avida Asten, Avida San Lorenzo, The Rise etc.

Some prices we are talking about are almost astonishing, and I do not want to say more until deals are done.

I was in a unit at TRAG just bought by my expat friend a few days ago.

He felt lucky to get a price under P 200k per sqm

Megaworld?  No so sure that I share your views on Resale prices of their properties

===

BGC : "better Go (to) Sea" - haha

It's an Island. Hard to get in and out of

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Makati is really a "bloodbath" and that will become very clear once you look at the following website

 

https://81property.com/properties/?id=buy

It is unclear whether the previously mentioned unit has been sold or not, as yesterdays ad URL is no longer functional,

 - maybe there is some "negotiation" going on behind the curtain, - but looking at that website you can see

that a unit in the Beacon was sold for a mere PHP110,000 per square meter. That happened probably in the secondary market

and should further serve as a severe warning that all the hype about rising prices is nothing but "smoke and mirrors" and "hot air".

https://81property.com/properties/?id=buy-details&uID=Beacon-4215.16

 

And that probably indicates that the smart money is leaving and more money is "exiting" Makati.

Because no matter how you look at it. The Beacon is a high quality building, yet it cannot fetch even a decent sales price.

These examples confirm my thesis that MAKATI is spiraling down and that is even before the huge supply increase starting at the end of next year.

 

Again these prices are UNIMAGINABLE in PASAY. Yet in Makati it is the order of the day.

"the mighty MAKATI" has fallen. (out of favor)

 

There is no liquidity left in Makati. There are insufficient "new entrants" who can provide a floor under the secondary market and so investors will be at the mercy of the "unknown". Combine a huge supply increase in 2020 with a - who knows - dramatic decline in the local and international share markets, and you have the recipe for a total collapse. Rents, capital values might decline by 30pct or more in a couple of years from now when "the dust finally settles".

 

I don't believe any of the reports coming out from Colliers. They're all in bed with the major developers. There is no honest system of tracking prices but these little "anecdotal" stories tell the real story and it doesn't look "fine". There are going to be major disappointments and it won't be "pretty".

 

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https://www.olx.ph/item/rush-sale-most-affordable-unit-in-avida-cityflex-bgc-ID8zs4M.html?h=a214f5332c

https://www.olx.ph/item/studio-for-sale-in-makati-ID8xKhJ.html

Surprise. Surprise. I think both sales are what I call "below the market value".

Megaworld one central MAKATI for php125K psm and Avida Cityflex BGC for 130K psm

and suddenly -- the ads are gone -- the links no longer work.

 

There is a secondary market in PH real estate. If you drop the asking price below a certain level,

buyers will step in, and this proves it.

 

My idea of a normal market price for Megaworld second hand in Makati is around PHP140K to PHP145K psm,

that is based on other ads that i have seen posted. For BGC the price is around PHP135K for Avida style buildings.

That is my market price. Filipinos will not pay more. But Chinese pay more, far more.

 

Real estate is an "imperfect" market, -- it takes longer for "abnormal" low offers to be absorbed by the market.

There are no "market makers" in this market like in the stock markets.

So it appears as if there is liquidity in this market.

 

 

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Hi ECB,

I own a unit in Megaworld One Central and I think your estimate of second hand prices for this building is accurate. I would say around PHP150k per sqm.
The adv you mentioned at 125k per sqm does not seem realistic. One unit was offered for sale recently slightly below 140k per sqm but this unit has a problem (unit k on low floor facing a wall) so it’s not really representative of the market.
One Central is now fully occupied. Majority of occupants are now Chinese & Korean. But despite the demand I agree with you, prices are not going up much.

Nearby in what Dr Bubb calls "little china" (San Antonio) it's a total different story. Demand there is extremely high and prices are going up accordingly.
 

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Hi Alex,

Nice to see you posting here again.

I think the rent demand is about to jump. And maybe 2nd market prices too.  An Australian friend whom I saw yesterday is now living in Three Central.

He says the people he sees in the elevator are almost all Chinese, with a few Filipinos.  He said he was very surprised to see a European guy in the elevator recently.  I was one of the first on his floor, but it is filling up pretty fast, he says.  I am guessing that many of them are working in the huge PB-Com tower, which has many Chinese tenants

gdlycgK.jpg

Nex Tower, is very near AFT & Citygate

31951998098_9a1280b332_b.jpg

Meantime, tenants have started to move into Citygate 1 & 2, which is a very short walk from One Central and Three Central, like 4-5 minute walk on the opposite side of Ayala Avenue.  There may be about 15,000 or more employees in those two buildings.  Plus maybe another 10,000 who will move into Nex Tower.  Many of these are likely to be mainland Chinese POGO related workers, get a monthly living allowance of perhaps 20-25,000 a month.  If they double up or triple up, they can afford units in Three Central, Kroma, etc

An upwards rise in Rents, if we indeed see that thanks to all the new employees in the CityGate area might help push up prices in the secondary market.  BTW, what do you think units in Skyland Plaza would fetch?  That seems to have been a great investment for those who bought years ago in a weak market

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Hi Dr Bubb,

Sorry for this very late reply. You are probably correct about a possible jump of rent prices. Regarding Skyland Plaza it's hard to say where the market is right now because there are no transactions.
What is sure is the demand is very high (even for parking slots) but totally dependent on POGOs

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Guest Kroma Visitor

Landlords at Kroma are finding good demand and renting their places quickly, at P1100 per sqm

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Skyland Plaza will turn out to be a great location when  City Gate, Rise & Air are finished

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ANY HAPPY SELLERS OUT THERE?
I am trying to find someone who made a SALE in the secondary market at a high price.  That is, someone who bought at a normal price, and after a few years ago was able to sell at a nice fat price near the price asked by developers

Recently, I keep asking people if they have managed to sell anything at a good price in the secondary market.  All I know is people who have found some "bargain" BUYS in the secondary market, No one who sold at a high price

RENT Is Okay

The Good news is that I know several people who are happy with the RENTS they are achieving on properties they bought some time ago.

Examples:

Many FF flats at Kroma have achieved P1,100 per sqm, or thereabouts

Avida Asten studios of 23 sqm, and getting P25,000-27,000 monthly on one year leases to tenants from Mainland China.

(That is: P1,087 - P1,174 psm)

 

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"SanLo" / Secondhand Prices at Avida Tower San Lorenzo

maxresdefault.jpg

Avida Turned over two Towers in recent years, on Chino Roces, next to WalterMart, just to the Left of SanLo.

Tower-1 (28 storeys, on the right) was turned over in about 2013-14, and Tower-2 (25 storeys) in 2015-16

View from the 22nd floor

 

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"SanLo" / Secondhand Prices at Avida Tower San Lorenzo

maxresdefault.jpg

Avida Turned over two Towers in recent years, on Chino Roces, next to WalterMart, just to the Left of SanLo.

Tower-1 (28 storeys, on the right) was turned over in about 2013-14, and Tower-2 (25 storeys) in 2015-16

xx

x

9ZlYXZE.jpg

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