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How are we going to dispose of our ever-increasing waste?

 

Both domestically and industrially, this has to be a GLOBAL growth area.

 

In the UK our land fill sites are filling. Then what?

 

As the middle classes of Asia, Eastern Europe and South America grow, and they all start consuming more, they're going to produce more waste. What are they all going to do with it?

 

Waste is surely another, later, but essential phase in this great commodities consumption bull.

 

Investors Chronicle tipped Augean last week - AUG; http://www.augeanplc.com/ - presumably named after Hercules' stables. But they deal in much more than horse sh*t: hazardous waste, of which 5 million tonnes is produced annually in the UK alone.

 

Any other suggestions?

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Good point about rubbish, I alway wondered when it would be economical to "mine" old rubbish dumps for their resource.

 

They must offer a fairly high concentration of different metals in one area. I guess the expense comes in seperating them.

 

 

However, in the near term rubbish dumps offer a good source of methane

 

 

http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn7048

 

 

Some more information on landfill gas, particularly for Ireland.

 

http://82.195.132.38/uploadedfiles/Renewab...ndfillfacts.pdf

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"How are we going to dispose of our ever-increasing waste?"

 

QUICK answers:

 

+ We need to recycle more,

+ We need to redesign packaging, what we use now is too wasteful,

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Yes, we need to produce less waste and recycle more.

 

However, the capitalist approach will less likely be 'produce less waste' and more likely be 'let me find a way of disposing of that waste for you, and if you produce more, I'll get rid of that too.'

 

Despite the fact that most people know we should produce less, the likelihood is man will still produce more. And there's money to be made in the disposal of it. Until packaging becomes too expensive, I'm sure that will remain the case.

 

But there's more to it than packaging. Industrial waste, for example.

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I was under the impression that it could be quite efficient to sort and burn certain waste in a 'waste to energy' plant:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trash-to-energy_plant

 

Being a simple sort of soul, this site seemed to explain it quite well too:

 

http://www.eia.doe.gov/kids/energyfacts/sa...tetoenergy.html

 

ie, sift out useful waste that is expensive to mine and process (e.g. aluminium) and burn a lot of the rest for electricity, or to provide central heating for local properties. This also cuts down on the need for landfill.

 

TLM

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"sift out useful waste that is expensive to mine and process (e.g. aluminium) and burn a lot of the rest for electricity, or to provide central heating for local properties"

 

GREAT in theory. But who does the sifting and sorting?

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However, in the near term rubbish dumps offer a good source of methane

GenX, Nealy all landfill sites extract methane now, and have done for years. Is this programme going to be repeated?

 

GREAT in theory. But who does the sifting and sorting?

There is a lot of investment into mechanised techniques for sorting residual waste. Part of the issue is the up front investment in untried technologies which require long term committments (20-30 years) to put in place. In Europe, Violia is a leading company aided by the French government in gaining committments to implement new technologies. Some interesting US companies are trying to gain a foothold in the UK market but suffering from a lack of test sites.

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GREAT in theory. But who does the sifting and sorting?

 

good point.

 

I'd say there are three main options.

 

1) sort at source - people won't want half a dozen different recycling bins, though.

2) cheap labour for manual sorting - could be used for rough sorting into plastics, metals, paper, etc

3) mechanised sorting, e.g

 

http://www.environmental-expert.com/techno....htm#separating

 

and there's a more general page of screening and sorting companies here:

 

http://www.environmental-center.com/tech_r...ttype=2&level=4

 

Option three obviously needs expensive capital equipment and maintenance, though.

 

It's possible that companies dedicated purely to separating and sorting could arise - maybe they exist already...

 

TLM

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It's possible that companies dedicated purely to separating and sorting could arise - maybe they exist already...

TLM

TLM

There are plenty of companies which do this, some multinationals and some smaller companies which are building the scale and expertise to expand. Interestingly, two of the major players in the UK market are up for sale at the moment.

 

There has tended to be a difficulty gaining equity finance for the waste sector in recent years due to the long term nature of the investments required and the legislative risks. Some individuals have invested on recyclng centres - for anyone with adequate cash this could provide a very strong return on investment.

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ONE SOLUTION is to get consumers to do it.

 

One way this is done is to put a Deposit cost on an item. Thus, the buyer of a can of beer might pay 5p or so extra for the beer. And he can get his 5p back, if he returns the beer can to a collection point. This provides an economic incentive to collect all those empty beer cans

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Yes, it would be like the old days of bringing back your bottles.

 

This is a simple as anything solution and would encourage kids to be a bit entrepreneurial to earn some pocket money.

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"would encourage kids to be a bit entrepreneurial to earn some pocket money"

 

RIGHT

As a youngster, I financed a significant part of my comic book collection,

by collecting bottles. My first portfolio maybe?

 

= =

 

Back to Augean (AUG). : chart

 

A quick eyeballing of the chart, suggests they may take at least one more visit to 100p

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"sift out useful waste that is expensive to mine and process (e.g. aluminium) and burn a lot of the rest for electricity, or to provide central heating for local properties"

 

GREAT in theory. But who does the sifting and sorting?

 

 

OK. I know I am radical which is probably another word for a c*nt. But if you have been unemployed for more than say 6 months then this is exactly the type of work you should be forced to do if you want to continue receiving benefits.

 

Same goes for single mums. Whilst the kid is at school why should i pay for them to sit and smoke fags and eat pies?

 

I think you might see a marked improvment in peoples efforts to get a a job!

 

Well thats my cards on the table. I'll go now. :lol:

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ONE SOLUTION is to get consumers to do it.

 

One way this is done is to put a Deposit cost on an item. Thus, the buyer of a can of beer might pay 5p or so extra for the beer. And he can get his 5p back, if he returns the beer can to a collection point. This provides an economic incentive to collect all those empty beer cans

Most people will want a monetary incentive before they go to all the trouble of washing their empty tins while they do the dishes. :lol:

 

Maybe a supermarket loyalty type scheme where by your waste presented for recycling would be weighed and a number of credits, proportional to the weight, placed on a swipe card. These credits could be exchanged at participating retailers or even, if they are willing, a council tax reduction.

 

The main problem with recycling is sorting the stuff. A system like this would eliminate the labour costs, (a job hard to ensure is actually being done) mechanised and automated, using trays designed to take standard size jars or cans making it difficult to fill it with bricks or whatever.

 

A system like this would reduce the amount that current operators have to landfill, O&M/plant costs and make the process far more efficient.

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Interesting idea, Dom

 

Make supermarkets recycling centres too.

Alot of the waste originates there, why not have them collect it too?

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"would encourage kids to be a bit entrepreneurial to earn some pocket money"

 

RIGHT

As a youngster, I financed a significant part of my comic book collection,

by collecting bottles. My first portfolio maybe?

 

I used to go around and collect pop bottles then take them to the shop.

 

1 krone for each bottle - a dyme bar 5 krone.

 

My first beerbelly maybe?

 

But kids today have got too much money, if things change this might be an idea!!!!

 

Incidentialy - even back in the 80's Norwegian's were very environmentally aware. Much ahead of the curve.

 

Eg. Buying the cheaper soap powder was frowned upon, because it was less "green". There was peer pressure rather than regulation driving things, Brits are miles away from this.

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Having been involved in the re-use / recycling / waste management biz for 6 years previously, I see the point is usually missed or at least rmisdirected.

 

Reduction & re-use are the key, not recycling. but the problem is that this is anti-capitalist, so the biz lobby cartel will stamp on reduction where thay can & re-use has an image / safety regs problem compared to buying new, especially as new is subsidised by slave China / India labour.

 

As transport energy costs increase, £ & eco-costs (use of fuel/clean up ) increase for seperation / recycling, so incineration as waste to energy becomes more attractive, particulalry as we need the energy.

 

Alas, the NIMBY effect stops these being built , so Gov will eventually have to force the build issue & increase air pollutant law / monitoring on them & force MRF (mechanised recycling facility ) to be used before burning to cover some recyclables, which does not hapen at present as it all goes into a big pit.

.

The rivers /canals are still are not utilised enough for waste transport.

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Most people will want a monetary incentive before they go to all the trouble of washing their empty tins while they do the dishes. :D

 

back in the 80's Norwegian's were very environmentally aware. Much ahead of the curve.

 

Eg. Buying the cheaper soap powder was frowned upon, because it was less "green". There was peer pressure rather than regulation driving things, Brits are miles away from this.

I'm currently reading a copy of freakonomics - there's a section which looked at dealing with late pickups at a day care centre. Management thought that if they set a $3 fine for a late pickup it would give the parents a financial incentive not to do it - unfortunately this had the opposite effect, the rate of late pickups increased because the parents could now buy their guilty conscience for a mere $3

 

Recycling is one of those things probably best driven by social pressure

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I'm currently reading a copy of freakonomics - there's a section which looked at dealing with late pickups at a day care centre. Management thought that if they set a $3 fine for a late pickup it would give the parents a financial incentive not to do it - unfortunately this had the opposite effect, the rate of late pickups increased because the parents could now buy their guilty conscience for a mere $3

 

Recycling is one of those things probably best driven by social pressure

 

 

I too am reading Freakonomics. It is a good read, trying to get behind what motivates people in the real economy. The chapter on Superman taking on the KKK has both a funny and very serious side to it. The end result of this was children, who got to know all the KKK secrets, passwords, etc, via the Superman TV programme, as the programme makers were fed the details from someone who had infiltrated the Klan. This effectively shamed the KKK supporting parents, who then stopped attending it's meetings. Perhaps recycling should be aimed at kids?

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It already is!

 

Yes, but are they making their parents feel guilty enough to actually do something as well?!

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I live in Wandsworth. We are every actively encouraged by the council to recycle our waste. They give us free orange bags to put out recyclable waste in.

 

This is then, I am, shipped to China to be recycled.

 

Bearing in mind the damage to the environmentof transport, how can that be environmentally friendly?

 

What's more. The accusation is that once it gets to China it is not recycled, but just dumped.

 

So it becomes deeply environmentally UNfriendly to channel your waste through the existing 'green' routes.

 

In this age of globalisation, it has become an impossibility. But surely the route forward on every level, not just the green one, is to do things LOCALLY. Local banks, local business, local government, local schools, local leaders and so on and bloody so on. I'd much rather have a street or block leader who I know and do (or don't trust) than Tony Blair and Gordon Sold All Our Gold Brown. Gordon Brown and his Golden Brown.

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