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Van

Buying Physical PMs & Protection Of Wealth

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We stand on the precipice of the greatest financial unwinding in living memory. Everyone knows the system is rotten to the core, unsustainable, and we have run out of road. From here on in, it's mainly about return of capital and protecting your wealth.

 

I have begun to buy physical silver coins (UK VAT-free if you use SilverToGo), as I believe these are without doubt the best play in town right now. I will continue to buy right through the coming crisis.

 

Gold will of course also have it's place. After a 4+ year bear market there has never been a better or more appropriate time to buy precious metals. The reasons everyone was screaming about to own goldin 2011 are even more today than they were then. Do not be fooled that the FIAT system is not destined to fail.

 

There is something very different about being a holder of physical than there is about "owning" paper gold. You are happy to hold it through large fluctutations that you wouldn't be willing to tolerate when trading it electronicallly. That doesn't mean that I don't see a place for trading gold and gold shares in my future, but with physical as an unleveraged play you want to accumulate it as insurance.

 

Gold & Silver ARE money. They are wealth. Buying & owning then you are protecting your long term wealth.

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Gold will of course also have it's place. After a 4+ year bear market there has never been a better or more appropriate time to buy precious metals. The reasons everyone was screaming about to own goldin 2011 are even more today than they were then

 

I do hope you are right.

 

But maybe we need to see a cup and handle formation on the charts first.

 

If you are right, then I we may see Gold blast through $1200 in a hurry, and I will be pleased,'

even though i may have sold some Calls too soon

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If you already have your physical insurance, then's there's the tradable part of it. For a 2 year new high break out, Gold only needs to clear $1300 (now $1175), and Silver $22 (now $15), a slightly bigger ask.

 

So it doesn't take much for gold to get a technical buy signal. I can't change my 2013 signature (below this post), but there is now light at the end of the tunnel for gold bugs.

 

I've already made a shortlist of US listed goldstocks http://www.greenenergyinvestors.com/index.php?showtopic=9343&page=33&do=findComment&comment=329054

 

AEM the strongest miner made a 4 week new breakout last week $33.51

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Deutsche bank sliding to new lows (and taking the DAX down with it), even below the 2008 nadir:

 

http://bigcharts.marketwatch.com/quickchart/quickchart.asp?symb=DE%3ADBK&insttype=Stock&freq=2&show=&time=13

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/26c9618e-c8de-11e5-a8ef-ea66e967dd44.html#axzz3zZOWC53Z

 

This is the the canary in the coal mine. Other financials will follow.

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Gold will of course also have it's place. After a 4+ year bear market there has never been a better or more appropriate time to buy precious metals. The reasons everyone was screaming about to own goldin 2011 are even more today than they were then

 

I do hope you are right.

 

But maybe we need to see a cup and handle formation on the charts first.

 

If you are right, then I we may see Gold blast through $1200 in a hurry, and I will be pleased,'

even though i may have sold some Calls too soon

 

It would be no pain to me at all if I was wrong. After all, I will probably lose my job and my cushty way of life will no doubt change. If it were just me, I would be fine -I'm completely self sufficient, but I do have family who I doubt will fare as well.

 

What I see going on is completely unsustainable - a massive abuse of policy. What once seemed idiotic and suicidal is now applauded as citizens doing what needs to be done to keep the plates spinning.

 

Too many idiots are making too much easy money. Risk has become a completely foreign concept, because someone else "has your back". It cannot continue, and it will not continue. If we are able to live above our means, it means someone else is living below their means - revolutions come from such injustices.

 

I buy precious metals as insurance against the follie of fiat, not as a speculative play. If the price goes down then that means I get to buy more for a better price next month. I now cannot see a time when I will want to stop buying, at least until we have a monetary reset.

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Took my first delivery of 50oz of silver coins yesterday.

Initial thoughts.. very shiny. Nice to have and be able to hold in your hand. I believe I will be back for more.

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Hey Errol, good to see you checking in on us from time to time.

 

I bought a mix of Aus Kookoboros and Canadian Maple Leafs from Silver-to-go.com. I think I will continue to stock up on various different officially minted coins unless you have other suggestions?

 

What type of coins?

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"The best time to plant a tree is 20 years ago. The next best time is today." - Ancient chinese proverb.

 

 

This guy's Youtube videos are hugely inspiring... even if you are not a PM bug.

 

He truly "gets it" that no matter what your personal circumstances, savings and investing in your own future are the key principles of prosperity and personal freedom.

 

https://www.youtube.com/user/silverfishVT/videos?sort=da&view=0&flow=grid

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It's important to minimize your tax liability and fees when buying silver. I've been doing some digging, and it seems that in the EU you can buy silver completely VAT-free via Estonia. Germany in comparison where silver-to-go is based incurs a 7% VAT charge.

Most people would kill for an annual return of 7%, never mind the 20% markup if you buy from a UK dealer.

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Will coin dealers in Estonia be prepared (or are even allowed) to send coins to buyers in the UK?

And if so, got any names you wish to share?

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Estonia is in the EU, and also has no sales tax at all on silver as it is legal tender over there, so in theory it is completely tax-free to get it shipped over from there.

 

some reading here:

http://bullionprice.co.uk/buy-vat-free-uk-silver/

http://nomadcapitalist.com/2015/02/09/best-place-buy-gold-silver-europe-vat-free/

 

I like the look of these guys:

https://www.celticgold.eu/

22EUR delivery charge is very good

 

https://www.libertysilver.ee/en/

but the delivery charge is a whopping ~$70 or so

 

Do your own due diligence.

All these sites seem to prefer direct bank transfer - I believe Silvertogo will let you use debit card but it incurs a 2% fee.

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Estonia is in the EU, and also has no sales tax at all on silver as it is legal tender over there, so in theory it is completely tax-free to get it shipped over from there.

 

some reading here:

http://bullionprice.co.uk/buy-vat-free-uk-silver/

http://nomadcapitalist.com/2015/02/09/best-place-buy-gold-silver-europe-vat-free/

 

I like the look of these guys:

https://www.celticgold.eu/

22EUR delivery charge is very good

 

https://www.libertysilver.ee/en/

but the delivery charge is a whopping ~$70 or so

 

Do your own due diligence.

All these sites seem to prefer direct bank transfer - I believe Silvertogo will let you use debit card but it incurs a 2% fee.

 

Scratch that, the 22EUR delivery is for Gold, not silver. Seems that companies can deliver gold but NOT silver - you have to instruct pickup separately. The seller makes this easy for you, but it is more expensive.

 

I'm going to have to rethink how I buy this to minimize my delivery costs. It may be that I buy a biggish chunk right now from Celticgold with a one-off delivery cost (I'd be happy to front-load my buying), and then add smaller chunks from SilverToGo where the delivery is £13 a go.

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http://goldsilver.be/en/146-coins

Compare here to silver to go , you're getting ripped off imo.

Unfortunately my site doesnt post to the UK

I would also avoid coin invest direct

I also use a company in Rotterdam called tov hazel

but afaik they dont ship to UK either.

Only option for UK buyers is to go direct to the shop

and buy over the counter however to make it all

cost effective you need to buy a large amount.

I know this probably doesnt help you but the UK

is the worst location for stacking silver.

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OK, I have done some comparisons and number crunching and... (drumroll) sorry to get everyone excited, but it doesn't really work out if you try to go via Estonia to avoid tax. I don't know how Silver To Go do it, maybe their margins are much smaller or their operation much more efficient, but they direct EUR price of silver coins between Silver to Go & the Estonian sellers is not greatly different.

 

Example,

American silver eagles:

 

Silvertogo: 17.64E

CelticGold: 17.57E

LibertySilver: 17.32E

 

So I would save 32 cents per coin at most buying through Estonia, but would have to likely pay maybe and extra 60-70E to get them shipped, so would have to order about 200 coins (>3400 EUR) just to break even.

 

So I think I'll stick with Silver to go. They're still much cheaper than buying from UK sellers and their low delivery cost suits my cost-averaging strategy well.

 

Good to do your homework, even if it leads you to the place you are already at =)

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Van, how do you arrange the shipping from silver-to-go?

 

There's nothing to worry about here - they will ship directly to you, as it's through Germany, so no need for you to arrange it separately.

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But Van, if they ship directly to you, surely they have to charge the UK VAT rate of 20% rather than the German 7% rate.

That was what that CelticGold guy was explaining - you buy in Estonia and you engage the services of the courier company yourself.

That way, the transaction with the Estonian company was completed in Estonia when they hand the goods over to your agent (which is the courier company) - thus making the VAT 0%

If the Estonian company engages the courier company to deliver the goods to you, the courier company is the agent of the Estonian company, NOT yours.

As such, the transaction is deemed to have taken place at the point of delivery which would be in the UK and thus 20% VAT is due

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Yes I think you are right. It's taxed at either 20% or 19%. The 7% rate was abolished after 2012. Either way the premium above spot becomes pretty much equalized once everything is accounted for.

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Yes I think you are right. It's taxed at either 20% or 19%. The 7% rate was abolished after 2012. Either way the premium above spot becomes pretty much equalized once everything is accounted for.

 

So it may be worth the trouble of using say, CelticGold and their Estonian associate/branch to save the 20% VAT, no?

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So it may be worth the trouble of using say, CelticGold and their Estonian associate/branch to save the 20% VAT, no?

Not really, Celticgold etc is only cheaper by about 30c/coin so you'd have to be buying fairly big quantities to make it worthwhile. Silvertogo is still really competitive even with the tax.

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