MONEY & Value discussion from the ParadoxMan channel

[FriarN]

MONEY & Value discussion from the Paradoxman channel

 

 

What is Money? What is Value? How are prices determined?

 

Here's a related discussion on this subject from Ron Van Dyke's channel :

 

(first post) - posted here : 28-12-2014: BREAKING THE SPELL OF THE MATRIX

 

/ With Ron's permission, I will post this here as a separate standalone posting:/

If I write you an IOU for $1 billion, do you think you will collect it?

You will not unless:

A/ I intend to make good on my promise, AND

B/ I have the tangible worth to pay the claim, OR I can earn the $1 billion in the future.

In evaluating the claims in the World Bank Document, I take note of ONLY the Tangible Net Worth on the planet, by adding up all the Tangible Assets -
If I do this very carefully, I will get an answer than is less than $300 Trillion.

Anything beyond this represents promises that are not yet backed by wealth already generated. Being able to pay out such unbacked claims is a claim on future earnings, work or goods not yet delivered - How reliable are such promises?. I think if you do the research as carefully as I have done, you will get the same answer - ie Tangible Wealth on our planet, is less than $300 Trillion. So anyone claiming the total is more than this is relying on work not yet done, or goods not yet in existence - That's a big stretch.

I strongly recommend, that you and others who doubt what I am saying do some research. I would be delighted to be proven wrong, and would be very happy to compare my details with those of anyone else. My friend did this exercise with Heather and was very quickly clued up that she was spouting nonsense - which Lisa Harrison now admits. Please accept that I am sharing this in the best sense of goodwill on collegial truth seeking.

[FriarN]

NOT EVERYONE "Gets" this Basic Comment

Ashllyne / 6 days ago

Your assessment makes sense to me. Let's wait and see what the Amba says since apparently his group checks comments :-) or ask Ron to ask the Amba. You raise a good point. Am curious to find out more.

Friar Newborg / 6 days ago

This comment is now hanging out there, without much responses yet. I may return to the subject when I am back in HK in a day or two

 

Tricia Freemom / 1 hour ago

Perhaps the idea of value needs to expand beyond "dollars" or whatever. Each is beyond ANY defined "money value", but rather of limitless worth, far beyond gold, silver, gems, which have value only as people place value upon same. As sparks of Creator, each is truly unlimited in one's creative potential value, imo. "Tangible wealth" "less than $300 Trillion"?? - not in my universe!!

 

Friar Newborg / 1 hour ago

+ ??? What Universe do you live in, Tricia? I think you fail to grasp the very important concept here. If you increase the number of promises (ie Doillars) without increase the amount of tangible assets, you will raise the price of the limited number of assets (food, products, property, etc) that exist and can be deilvered. That's the basic law of supply and demand. How does this basic Law of Supply vs Demand work on your planet?

[FriarN]

Getting an Answer MATTERS

 

Ashllyne 12:46 PM

+Friar,
This is an important question to raise. It makes sense but clarification is not being brought forward.

Even Benjamin sounded confused. He mentioned that only 400 billion were needed to end hunger and stated he didn't think any of that money had been released as interest disbursements or we would be able to see it on the planet. Sort of implying that the money as such may not exist. Oh, well! My inquisitive mind wants to know.

Friar Newborg (just now):

ABSOLUTELY! People are confusing claims on wealth (ie Dollars) with actual Wealth (ie Tangible things like food, clothing, homes, cars, etc.) Increasing the number of Dollars does not increase the number of Tangible goods and assets that exist on our planet. Another key point: Some have made the effort to actually add up these Tangible things that exist on our planet, and they have current Dollar value of less than $300 Trillion. That's why I ask a question like: WHERE are the Dragon families keeping all that wealth that is claimed for them. Maybe it is off planet somewhere, in Tricia's universe. It isn't here on Planet Earth. I can share some details with you here, or on Acore, if you like.

[FriarN]

Keenan is speaking some wild and crazy numbers, here:

Cosmic Voice special with Mr. Neil Keenan

> http://www.blogtalkradio.com/drakebailey/2015/01/03/cosmic-voice-special-with-mr-neil-keenan

===

"Quadrillions of dollars were in that bunker."

No way. Here's why (2 Reasons)

First of all, the total gold acknowledged on this planet is about 5 billion ounces. At $1200 per oz, it is worth $6 Trillion. So where does the Quadrillions of dollars come from?

Second, if there is 100x or 1000x that much Gold, then the value will plummet. Maybe back to $35 or less. And then the gold holders will get much. much less for all that Gold.

Look, Irish dreams are great ("when Irish eyes are smiling" and all), but let's apply a little common sense to this situation. Please.

[FriarN]

Here's a posting I made under today's video :

22-01-2015: A HUMAN CENTRIC SOCIETY

 

"Our life is the value..." Well, I basically agree with this.

There's an old saying: "The best things in life are free." - ie, they are not valued in monetary term: relationships, gifts of kindness (even sweaters!), love given and received. It is crazy to put a monetary value on these things, because if they are "bought" they do not have the right quality of heart behind them.

 

But even so, there was a mind-rotting phrase put forward by the OPPTers: "We are the value" - Used as you use it here, Ron, I GET it. But the OPPT would throw this out, and the wrong moment, when someone wanted to have a serious discussion about their bizarre wealth claims. When I and others pointed out that there was not enough Tangible Wealth on the planet to pay out $6 billion, or even $6 million, to each person on the planet, they would toss that phrase out in the discussion. (Probably simply to distract people from a Truth they did not want to hear.) The phrase was meaningless; it had no meaning in a discussion about How Much Wealth is on the the planet at one point in time.

 

Here's the basic problem: If someone suddenly handed out $6 million in US currency (or any currency) to everyone on the planet, here is what would happen: There's less than 1% of that much tangible wealth on our planet, so prices of all tangible assets, would increase hugely - maybe by 100x. This is basic math: Supply of currency, divided by Tangible assets, would give us a new price level. Give everyone more money, and they will spend it, paying higher prices for everything.. / Of course, as that happens: the "best things in life" would still go on holding their value. They are not for sale, and cannot be priced in currency.

[drbubb]

The CONVERSATION continued, getting more lively:

 

paradoxman316:

+Friar Newborg I disagree that there is ANY limit on the amount of wealth on the planet, though I agree with most everything else you say. When "money" is created out of nothing, how could there be a limit. And if humanity stopped creating, stooped laboring, none of the money would be worth anything at all.

Friar Newborg:

+paradoxman316
: Ron. its pretty simple. If we have a fixed amount of Tangible assets (food, houses, gold, factories etc), and then pump more money into the system, the prices of those assets will go up. Isn't that obvious and indisputable? The only way around this, is to increase production, and build and create more Tangible assets. But that's a slow process. If you are speaking about non-Tangible assets, I think you may have a point I could partly agree with. And it would be interesting to see how you would articulate that. 

Key Maker:

+Friar Newborg NO.. it's not 'pretty simple' sorry... your thinking is flat out exactly what the cabal (the 'they') want and NEED everyone to think.. it's programming, it's BS. That type of thinking is known as 'zero sum game'.. and it is a very big part of what keeps everyone trapped in falseness.

Do not support this concept Friar it is a lie.

this false concept is 'key' for the cabal.. i.e. it is an idea that is fundamental for the mass of busy people to believe so those people stay obedient and working their entire ENTIRE lives away!.. if people believe in the 'zero sum game' they will tend towards becoming greedy and me me me focused (head down ass up .. gotta get me some stuff, gotta compete, gotta compete, life is tuff etc, gotta compete etc etc), this is part of the programming we each receive at school (lots of it).. The 'zero sum game' is a complete lie.. and you should not be supporting it Friar.

The petrol-dollar is ALL ABOUT maintaining the lie of 'zero sum game' .. i.e. it is vital for the cabal to maintain this lie.. this believe in modern society that energy must cost (and guess who we must pay for it)

Abundant free energy is real.. it exists.. every year someone invents a free energy machine.. and then the try to patient it.. pooof gone. Free unlimited green energy is a human right that has been and is removed from our society by the people at the top of it. When free energy is introduced into the world everything changes.. yes it is real and it is here now.. but its not part of the 'thinking' of the masses.. they are still 'stuck' in the zero sum game BS !

Free electricity completely changes ALL industry and ALL financial agreements.

The people that run the world wide patient office are effectively the same people that run all the oil pumps world wide and they are effectively are the same people that run all the news papers and TV stations in the world... hmmmn hmmmn (people know this, they 'feel this on some level)

Ron.. perhaps a topic for a future video .. explaining the BS behind 'zero sum game thinking' and what it has lead to.. and why its important to 'see through' this programming for people who want to awaken more and more and to awaken more and more people.

Modwiz125 :

+Key Maker
Thank you for that well written posting of your clarity. I was also surprised reading the post that prompted yours. It is a world view with plenty of supporters, so thinking outside that box does not come easily to people involved in financial services.

Friar Newborg :

+Key Maker
: If there was some logic in your message, I might be able to respond to it. Do you deny the simple idea that an increase in currency in people's hands will raise prices? Admitting this reality is the first step towards having a production and reasoned discussion. How else might the world work? I do have many issues with how our present economic system is set-out, and it would be interesting to discuss them. But if we cannot agree on a very simple concept like Supply vs. Demand, we won't get anywhere. (Frankly, I am rather appalled by the lack of basic economics knowledge that I often find on the web. If our society is to change for the better, we need to have some ability to reason, and put forward arguments, without facing so many illogical arguments.)

Key Maker

+Friar Newborg Our current system of money is designed to enslave everyone.. not set them free. (do you feel free?.. do you see free people all around you.. being and doing what they want with their life's.. no)

It is designed to remove human values and create conflict and denial.. its works in this regard.

Friar often your arguments/posts are circular.. often your thinking is trying to build a completely new box based on the design of the box your standing in.

We need a fundamentally different box design... i.e. there is nothing we need to retain from our existing box.
The financial system is fraud.. they just print money as 'they' see fit.. while we work for that money.. its crazy man!

Friar Newborg

KM, you make the same mistake that many web posters make: You seek to sharpen the disagreement, rather than first finding points of agreement. I wrote above that I am not fully happy with the way our system works - so maybe we can agree on that. As for the Law of Supply vs Demand, do you really think this basic concept is wrong? I think it is perfectly obvious that a big jump in money supply without an increase in Goods and Services, is certainly going to increase prices. I think we should be able to agree on that also: It is so fundamental and basic. The next point might be to consider HOW money supply is added to our system. Is the present system a fair one? Again, we might agree on this more than you think. If we are going to have a useful discussion, in makes sense to stick with the point under discussion (Supply vs Demand), and not come in from left field and start talking about a slavery system. If you do that. you seems to me that you are trying to score some easy points with the peanut gallery, not have a gentlemanly and fruitful discussion.

[yelik]

My understanding is that we have an Alpha Draconis money magic system imposed on earth a very long time ago; where TPTB control virtually all key resources, in particular money and energy as well as medicine, food, water, education and not least the whole military industrial complex.

 

In the grand scale of deception and lies it’s probably not worth getting too bogged down with specific numbers because we can only quote available information from official sources which may or may not be accurate, but it’s the best we have. The Elites syphon off wealth at many stages, cradle to grave as it were.

 

Rather than making wild guesses about wealth to help prove a point it’s probably better to stick to the main principles because regardless of what people think about our system of control we have to admit it is very clever and does appear to work for the uninformed masses. In fact we ourselves are often trapped and controlled by it one way or another.

 

If the PTB were toppled tomorrow it would be unwise to scrap the system we have. Once a new trusted system of democratic leaders were elected changes would have to introduced in a controlled manner to avoid upsetting the status quo, people do not like change so letting them out of jail to run wild is probably not a good idea

 

I agree with Dr B it is not helpful when people make wild claims about available wealth and gold and think that by simply dumping money into the economy to buy peoples respect spoils their argument and credibility, so why do it?

[drbubb]

I agree with Dr B it is not helpful when people make wild claims about available wealth and gold and think that by simply dumping money into the economy to buy peoples respect spoils their argument and credibility, so why do it?

 

To win an audience for a Flytrap operation?

That's the only answer I can come up with.

Also, there can be some dosh in it.

Heather and crew raised a fair amount of money on the back of the OPPT fantasies.

I am not sure what the end game strategy is for the Ambassador yet. We may know soon.

I like the fact that he was careful about not over-promising what he could deliver.

[FriarN]

Two-tiered supply and demand, than benefits the elites.

 

 

'People need to have less things in life', says U.S. billionaire after flying into Davos on private jet with his wife, children and TWO nannies

Jeff Greene made a fortune betting against sub-prime mortgage securities

He said: 'America's lifestyle expectations are far too high and need to be adjusted'

Comments came as Greene flew into Switzerland on private jet with wife, children and two nannies in tow

Mr Greene is currently in the process of selling his $195million Beverly Hills estate

- it is the most expensive property currently on the U.S. market

( Read more in a 27/1/2015 DailyMail article* )

 

Deflation: WHY? Think Supply vs Demand.

 

Demand and prices are falling because the average person is being squeezed.

 

Their incomes are not keeping up with inflation. And they are getting squeezed by higher insurance costs, rising taxes, and increases in "administered" prices. So the prices of everyday items, which cannot be price-controlled are falling, as people have less money to spend as they wish. Meantime, wealthy elites, like the "fortunate" Mr Jeff Greene, have been helped by the easy money being made available through the fed. He can finance his property developments more cheaply. He complains because SOME of his costs are going up. The prices of stocks, art work, expensive global luxury real estate, elite education and such things are rising - because he and other members of the 1% club, have MORE money to spend, and the luxury goods makers have increased their prices - because they CAN. Demand is high from the rich, but falling from the rest of us. We have less money to spend, while they are "rolling in it."

 

What will end this two-track economy? Something that stops the easy money from flowing most easily to the elites.

End the Fed. Stop the Feeding of vampires like Mr Greene. If you can't beat him, de-finance him, by cutting him off from his very cheap money.

 

==

*Daily Mail: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2921522/Americans-need-things-life-says-billionaire-Jeff-Greene.html

 

(this comment was based on one from DrB's Diary today)

[drbubb]

Are we now an Oligarchy?, asks Bernie Sanders

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JIdVRabYnOk

 

... and with Janet Yellen:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=noSmzmyZHr0

 

1% of the population has over 30% of the Financial Assets

[yelik]

Its difficult to cut off the Oligarchy because they control all key positions. So its a bit like asking them to consider cutting their own throats. Perhaps that is possible with the help of mind control technology for a few months.

 

Unless a few million people got together to change it through mass consciousness, they won't like that one dam bit

[FriarN]

MORE

 

RHM :

Sorry Friar your whole premis on the money and accounts is from a perspective that has been fed to humanity..there is not enough wealth when in fact you will find that most is not accounted for on some bogus ledger being put out by the cabal to make us think they have not been robbing the world blind! The Rothschilds have an estimated net worth of 100 trillion.

 

Friar N:

There is zero evidence that "the Rothschilds have an estimated net worth of $100 Trillion"

- If you look into those claims, you will see there is nothing behind them. Here are some figures for you Tangible Wealth on the planet is probably less than $300 Trillion, if you add up all the Tangible Assets. This excludes IOU's, when not backed by something tangible, and may therefore have to be written off someday, like debts of Greece. Sure, we can print huge amounts of money, like in Weimar Germany. But if we do that, it will create inflation, and wreck the economy., leaving us with the same tangible assets, just valued differently, and maybe in different hands, after the dust settles.

[drbubb]

CORPORATE CASH - Some interesting figures in today's FT

 

Corporate cash piles targeted in hunt for growth - pg.4, FT

 

Policy makers have been obsessed with growing levels of public debt... attention is shifting to the large cash piles

corporations have squirrelled away in the past decade

 

+ Obama last week took aim at the $2tn in profits parked away by co's seeking to avoid paying tax

+ The prolonged era of cheap money has failed to slow the accumulation of large corporate war chests

+ Deloitte's figures show non-financial co's have accumulated $3.5tn in cash reserves, up from $1.8tn in 2005

 

The current US system, encourages co's to keep cash abroad (they don't pay tax until they repatriate it)

 

Some countries like South Korean impose penalty taxes on co's that accumulate large cash reserves

[drbubb]

In plain language, in 2008, the US Federal Reserve Board had an invisible account on its off-ledger books holding 2,588 trillion trillion trillion quadrillion US Dollars.

That is 2588 followed by fifty one noughts.

Spiritual Wonder Boy = SWB = Secret World Banking

> http://alcuinbramerton.blogspot.co.uk/2012/01/global-banking-crisis-what-global.html

It is a joke !

 

Money of that size in a bank account is impossible.

 

Where would the bank itself park that amount of money?

(Obviously, they will not accept the deposit, unless they can use the money by parking it somewhere,

and earning a return on it. This is just commonsense!)

[drbubb]

THE RICH are so Rich that "they won't fit in on the chart"

 

> see chart at 6:50 minutes

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rM86kfEsrwo

 

20% own 80% of the wealth, roughly,

And the Top 1% :

And the Top 0.1% :