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Roger Scruton : Why Beauty Matters

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Roger Scruton : Why Beauty Matters

And the appeal of a (conservative) Green Philosophy

==================================

What is the Aim of Poetry, Art, and Music?

LOST : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RiajXQUppYY

Has it really changed?

Replacement:

Why does modern art... "Aim to disturb" (with ugliness)?

And what does that ugliness do to our souls

"What is shocking the first time around, is boring when repeated."

"The crime of modern architecture: If you consider only utility, a thing is soon useless."

"Love is about giving, while Lust is about Taking."

(And I ask):

Have the psychopaths taken over Art, the way they have taken over politics and finance?

If you destroy the Vampire Squid, can you bring back: Art as Beauty?

(Why don't we just try it and find out)

=== ===

Scruton also found he could apply his philosophy to saving the environment

In Green Philosophy, Roger Scruton argues that conservatism is far better suited to tackle environmental problems than either liberalism or socialism. He contends that the environment is one of the most urgent political problems of our age, and sets out principles that should govern our efforts to protect it. The current environmental movement often fails to see that the environmental problems are generated and solved by ordinary people. Scruton argues that success in tackling environmental degradation comes from "national or local schemes to protect territory recognized as 'ours'".

Roger Scruton will be speaking about the ideas in his new book, Green Philosophy: How to think seriously about the planet, and taking questions.

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On 4/16/2012 at 12:05 PM, DrBubb said:

Roger Scruton ... the appeal of a (conservative) Green Philosophy

==================================

In Green Philosophy, Roger Scruton argues that conservatism is far better suited to tackle environmental problems than either liberalism or socialism.

The WSJ has also joined the discussion, in an article in today's paper:

Want to Save the Planet? Turn Right / Interview with Roger Scruton

"Scruton's case for environmentalism is classically conservative:

centered on the love of home, the importance of local institutions, and especially the suspicion of state power."

"Conservatism is a rejection of utopia for reality - ie: A preference for improving society bit by bit over fixing society by rubbing it out."

"Left-wing positions come about from resentment - a resentment about the surrounding social order... There's always some sense on the left that power is in the wrong hands... And when (the sense of wrongness) turns itself into an environmental movement, the resentment remains."

A different sort of environmentalism is possible : based on "a reverence of surroundings and love of home." Such environmentalism "depends on responsible stewartship."

"The environmental movement's task," Mr Scruton argues, "Is to remind people of why they should want clean air and green land in the first place - and to empower them to make the changes themselves."

Part of the problem is that people may WANT a stable habitat, they are "unwilling to do what's necessary to conserve it."

Scruton "decries the addictions to fast food, tourism, and waste", and derides those who say they dislike air pollution "but won't stand for higher fuel taxes or reduce driving or flying." (Think of the hypocracy of Al Gore, living in a large mansion with multiple cars in the driveway, and flying in private jets to environmental conference.)

I AGREE:

If only we could get the happy motorists to suck up all the air pollution they create !

Scruton speaks positively: "America has this wonderful ability to recover from its own mistakes, which is why it is so hugely superior to China... there's no reverse gear in China." And he is hopeful that "environmental degredation will be reversed from the ground up."

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Scruton is a good man, hits the nail on the head. Good living involves making sacrifices (generosity) and being self-disciplined (avoid vices). Of course his views are unpopular and is never seen at the BBC!

 

Another good thinker is Dr Anthony Daniels ex prison doctor, his work on the cancer of sentimentality in western society is very interesting. Again never seen at Broadcasting House.

 

The Times art critic gives 5 stars for the Hirst retrospective. Go figure.

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Scruton is a good man, hits the nail on the head. Good living involves making sacrifices (generosity) and being self-disciplined (avoid vices). Of course his views are unpopular and is never seen at the BBC!

. . .

The Times art critic gives 5 stars for the Hirst retrospective. Go figure.

In a word run by psychopaths, we have :

 

+ Lost the ability to disguish between right and wrong, and

 

+ Lost the sense of why we need to separate Beauty in Art from Ugliness.

 

Those who collect the work of Damien Hirst are displaying a disability for all to see

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This is a really interesting thread and brings in a lot of issues about modern life.

 

I was reading the excellent Frank Chalk blog about modern teaching, and I think that led me to Winston Smith's blog about being a social worker in urban UK. Fascinating stuff.

 

As you say Dr B, we are lying to ourselves, a kind of mass delusion, about the Euro, about GDP, credit ratings, targets for performance in areas of social policy, it goes on and on...we need truth, how will it reassert itself and who will carry the torch?

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...we are lying to ourselves, a kind of mass delusion, about the Euro, about GDP, credit ratings, targets for performance in areas of social policy, it goes on and on...we need truth, how will it reassert itself and who will carry the torch?

A good question.

 

Do you see any positive changes or progress around you?

 

Personally, I take encouragement from what I have heard from people like Drake (who talks about both the need for change and the need to uphold PRINCIPLES. But is it real, or just a web fantasy? I suppose we will know the answer by the end of May, and that is not long to wait. But similar Change Events that have been "promised" have not materilaised in the past. So who knows.

 

Here in HK there is genuine change. Or at least there is a new man in charge as Hong Kong's Chief Executive. He seems to be more willing to engage the people and listen to their problems than Donald Tsang before him ever did. But will that bring positive change, or just more state inteference and higher taxes. HK has been a bastion of Free Enterprise, but that approach can be easily lost. So will Mr CY Leung manage to hold onto the historical PRINCIPLES that have served HK well for decades? Or will he ditch them in a search for popularity?

 

I think Roger Scrutons philisophies can help one to realise the importance of principle. Building a successful society on popular actions, is building on shifting sands.

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In a word run by psychopaths, we have :

 

+ Lost the ability to disguish between right and wrong, and

 

+ Lost the sense of why we need to separate Beauty in Art from Ugliness.

 

Those who collect the work of Damien Hirst are displaying a disability for all to see

 

I think you are right about the world being run by psychopaths but feel I must disagree about some of Hirsts work. For me Hirst reflects back to society truths about itself many have avoided seeing and is interesting and often good art. I would not want the dead eyed dead shark swimming in formaldehyde in my living room (as it is horrific) but in a terrible way it is beautiful and asks the viewer questions. I particularly like his work 'For the love of God' which reflects the age we have just lived through.

 

A diamond encrusted skull. Disgusting opulence in the face of death. I think of Blair and Bush, Brown and Bernanke, BTL, war on terror, P.Diddy, bling, starvation and 'being intensely relaxed about people getting filthy rich'. It makes me angry but it is brilliant.

post-2902-0-52657900-1334685284_thumb.jpg

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A diamond encrusted skull. Disgusting opulence in the face of death. I think of Blair and Bush, Brown and Bernanke, BTL, war on terror, P.Diddy, bling, starvation and 'being intensely relaxed about people getting filthy rich'. It makes me angry but it is brilliant.

It mocks whomever owns it

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Hirst is an adolescent, wants to shock for its own sake. Emin's bed is another example. They have undeveloped immature minds. Perhaps society as whole is immature, they then reflect society very well.

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It mocks whomever owns it

Quite. Find it very amusing that Hirst and his backer(s) (guessing Saatchi)had to buy the thing themselves. Truly a symbol of our times.

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Quite. Find it very amusing that Hirst and his backer(s) (guessing Saatchi)had to buy the thing themselves. Truly a symbol of our times.

They should have name the skull "Jealousy" (rather than Love-of-God) to recall the words of Shakespeare

 

hirstloveofgod.jpg

 

"JEALOUSY is a green-eyed monster that dost mock the meat it feeds on."

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I have met Roger Scruton socially only once. He has the most incisive mind. I really enjoyed the brief 10 mins of his company but afterwards I realised he had learnt all about me and I nothing of him!

 

Reading the above posts had me reading the internet on some of his works all very absorbing and thought provoking. Certainly I agree with nearly all his views; especially country life.

 

The UK needs many more men like Scruton who are prepared to air their views in the public domain.

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I have met Roger Scruton socially only once. He has the most incisive mind. I really enjoyed the brief 10 mins of his company but afterwards I realised he had learnt all about me and I nothing of him!

Interesting.

 

It sounds like he is far from being an egomanic.

 

You know that old joke about the guy who talks for 15 minutes about himself,

and then pauses, and says:

"That's enough about me.

Now what do you think of my work?"

 

Here's a LINK, to that WSJ article : "Want to Save the Planet? Turn Right":

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304444604577341521643541262.html

 

EXCERPT - Showing the clarity of his thinking:

 

A friend once told him, as he recounted in a 2005 essay, that "Conservatism is a political practice, the legacy of a long tradition of pragmatic decision making and high-toned contempt for human folly. To try to encapsulate it in a philosophy was the kind of naïve project an American might undertake."

 

What of liberalism? "My own view," he tells me, "is that left-wing positions largely come about from resentment—I agree with Nietzsche about this—a resentment about the surrounding social order. They have privileges, I don't. Or, I have them and I can't live up to them. Things should be organized differently.

 

"And there's always some sense on the left that power is in the wrong hands. You know, that the world is misgoverned. And in particular, the nearer something is to yourself, the more you feel that on the left. There's this rejection of your own country, of your own government."

 

"That emotion is very strong," he continues. "I think it's the fundamental source of left-wing politics throughout the 20th century. And when it turns itself into an environmental movement, the resentment remains."

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Apparently Scruton hates Milton Keynes (the place), as much as JHK might:

(In fact, you could say the MK is the UK's version of the suburban project, I suppose):

 

Bland or brilliant? A town responds

 

MiltonKeynes-eb10552.jpg

READERS have reacted furiously to claims Milton Keynes is spread over 88 square miles of ‘aesthetic pollution’.

 

Last week Roger Scruton, who lives in the States, launched his blistering attack on the new city referring to the centre as ‘recognisable only by its superlative ugliness’ in a post on a Conservative website.

 

However, Citizen readers have flooded our newsdesk in defence of MK with messages of support.

 

Pete Burrett, of Old Farm Park, said: “These are typically ignorant comments made by someone who clearly knows nothing of Milton Keynes at ground level, and has selected the town for his bile based on ‘received wisdom’, or lack of it.”

 

Mr Scruton, who is described as a writer and philosopher, working as a scholar at the America Enterprise Insitute also said: “In the midst of this urban sprawl residents are ‘trapped in little globules’ between cars.

 

Anluise Hamilton-Bruce, of Beanhill, said: “The little globules – I assume Mr Scruton is referring to the housing estates – were designed to protect the residents from the fast traffic of the dual carriageways. They keep us safe and free from noise and pollution.”

 

milton-keynes7.jpg

(Does it really read: "Sue Me!", or maybe "Sod Off!" - if so, the planners have a sense of humor.)

 

“I once said I would not live in MK for £1million. Two and a half years later I am still here with no plans to move.”

 

However, some of our readers agreed with Mr Scruton’s comments with one saying: “I agree with Mr Scruton 100 per cent. People who think we are a city must live very sheltered lives.

 

/more: http://www.miltonkeynes.co.uk/news/local/bland-or-brilliant-a-town-responds-1-3726991

=== ===

 

The main place to find Density there, is in the minds of the planners, as they pile into their cars.

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Milton Keynes - City? Never. Suburban conurbation? Yes. A town planners wet dream. Full of blandness, uniformity, hundreds of silly roundabouts. Easy to get lost. The land wasted building towns such as Milton Keynes, Stevenage, Harlow is criminal.

 

All that is wrong with modern housing in the UK is to be found in these "new towns". Most of the housing and infrastructure is reaching the end of their life expectancy. Populated initially by those who returned for homes fit for heroes found themselves as urban people dumped in the countryside in suburban surroundings unable to get anywhere without a car.

 

These places are soul destroying, ugly, downbeat, impoverished, lacking political and moral direction. Local blue collar industry has died in the UK unable to compete with the Far East so the unemployment levels for a largely uneducated local workforce is very high.

 

It is all so very depressing. It is hard to see what to do with these places other than knock them down and start again. Whoever was responsible for the design and commission of these towns need to be, like Oliver Cromwell, taken from their graves, beheaded with their heads on a pike outside every Council Headquarters in the land as a reminder to each planning dept of what will happen to them if they only listen to the developers and not the people.

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Milton Keynes - City? Never. Suburban conurbation? Yes.

...Populated initially by those who returned for homes fit for heroes found themselves as urban people dumped in the countryside in suburban surroundings unable to get anywhere without a car.

 

These places are soul destroying, ugly, downbeat, impoverished, lacking political and moral direction. Local blue collar industry has died in the UK unable to compete with the Far East so the unemployment levels for a largely uneducated local workforce is very high.

Whoops.

Indeed. I thought so.

Now you know why I abuse the American suburbs so much.

The UK has its own version, so you can be a bit sympathetic.

 

Now in the US, Andres Duany (who is one of the pioneers of New Urbanism), is working hard to improve on the UK concept of a Market Town

 

I really think that JHK should interview Roger Scruton someday. They have so much to talk about !

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I am familiar with your vieews on US suburbs & McMansions etc and I most certainly agree with you.

 

Energy is the key for the future and US and UK suburban situations and although wholly different have the same fundamental problem of "sustainability". The people of the future living in these settlements are not going to be running vehicles the way they do today (unless some incredible new technology appears overnight which is not taxed to same degree); they will rely on public transport.

 

It is interesting to note US gasoline figures emerging now suggest Americans consumption is down to 2002 levels and headed toward 1992 levels. Diesel automobiles (cars) remain relatively rare still.

 

Perhaps I was a bit harsh on poor old Milton Keynes in my earlier post. But those living there cannot escape the basic fact that it lacks beauty even if the majority of residents are perfectly decent hard working honest people.

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Energy is the key for the future and US and UK suburban situations and although wholly different have the same fundamental problem of "sustainability". The people of the future living in these settlements are not going to be running vehicles the way they do today (unless some incredible new technology appears overnight which is not taxed to same degree); they will rely on public transport.

Indeed.

And for that transport (and other infrastructure) to make sense economically, you need some minimum level of density,

not the ugly sprawl typified by Milton Keynes.

 

Perhaps they should hire Duany's DPZ to help them retrofit as at right:

 

miltonkeynes2.jpg

 

A new Urban Agrarian village might be a nice replacement for a part of MK.

 

Duany Plater-Zyberk & Company (DPZ) was hired to create a plan to develop an “agricultural community” on a 528-acre farm site near Vancouver, British Columbia. Andres Duany and his team worked with master farmer Michael Ableman and other experts: This creative fertilization produced a plan to build a town of 2,000 housing units on one-third of the site’s acreage while tripling the value of the land’s agricultural production.

 

The as-yet-unbuilt project, called Southlands, was unique in that it sought to integrate agriculture and urbanism at all levels, from high-density units with window boxes to medium-sized farms. Duany has since refined his thinking on the subject, designed a series of projects, and now calls this approach “agrarian urbanism.”

 

Duany explains the name: “rather than ‘agricultural,’ which is concerned with the technical aspects of growing food, the term ‘agrarian’ emphasizes the society involved with all aspects of food. Not long after Southlands, Duany declared that “agriculture is the new golf.” In other words, access to locally grown food and the culture by which it is grown and processed is an amenity that people will pay for.

 

/more: http://bettercities.net/article/how-grow-garden-city-15043

 

 

Would Scruton find any beauty in this?

It might depend on the design of individual buildings

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Quote

It is all so very depressing. It is hard to see what to do with these places other than knock them down and start again. Whoever was responsible for the design and commission of these towns need to be, like Oliver Cromwell, taken from their graves, beheaded with their heads on a pike outside every Council Headquarters in the land as a reminder to each planning dept of what will happen to them if they only listen to the developers and not the people

It's all jobs for the boys isn't it? The councillors have got more conflict of interests that you can shake a stick at. See Private Eye's Rotten Boroughs. And their section Nooks and Crannies reveals that desecration of our fine buildings is going on apace.

Accommodating the infernal combustion engine has exacted a high price.

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It is all so very depressing.

It is hard to see what to do with these places other than knock them down and start again. Whoever was responsible for the design and commission of these towns need to be, like Oliver Cromwell, taken from their graves, beheaded...

Yes.

They are depressing.

The problem is that someone owns them, and wants to protect their investment in the property that they own.

 

It is that classic old problem: JHK called it "the psychology of previous investment." Rather than being rational, and seeking a way to start over and wind up with a better result, people try and protect what they have.

 

Like this poor fellow:

 

bbae704c780df22e9962c337e336b7790856007a_645_430.jpg

 

He reckons the property is worth GBP 210,000. He's not going to want to "tear it down, and start over."

And even if he did, his neighbors may not agree, and would block any bright ideas that he might have.

/link: http://www.zoopla.co.uk/for-sale/details/1826035

 

It will be easier to tear-it-down, and put up something better here:

 

article-1230220-074B5DF6000005DC-322_468x304.jpg

/see: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/property/article-1230220/Barns-bargain-forgotten-assets-auction-help-repay-national-debt.html

 

A crumbling eyesore is much easier to tear down.

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Finally, a Conservative Leader

Tony Abbott is the real thing like no one since Margaret Thatcher.

> http://spectator.org/articles/57690/finally-conservative-leader

==================

tony-abbott-729-620x349.jpg?itok=WOAVjCl

 

This part - looks good :
"Thus far Abbott has matched his open adherence to distinctly conservative convictions by implementing policies that reflect those principles.

Elected prime minister in September last year, Abbott is in many respects the left’s nightmare come true. For one thing, he’s a practicing Catholic, who, though he doesn’t draw attention to his faith, is generally associated in people’s minds with the Church’s conservative wing. Among other brickbats, that’s earned him (rather sectarian) epithets such as the “mad monk.”

At the same time, Abbott possesses — like his political mentor, Australia’s most successful modern conservative politician, John Howard — the common touch. In private and public, he comes across as rather normal and unpretentious. In Australian politics, that will take you a very, very long way."

( ... and he can read - Hurray ! )

But Abbott is unique insofar as he combines an ability to communicate with ordinary people with being that rarity among conservative politicians: someone genuinely interested in ideas.

I can’t think of any other contemporary government leader who would quote one of modern conservatism’s leading intellectuals, Roger Scruton, in a speech to the World Economic Forum. A Rhodes Scholar and Oxford graduate, Abbott actually reads serious books...

Roger Scruton - has some interesting ideas
He does not like Ugly art, for instance
Can Abbott take on the pernicious modernist/ Zionist influence that has infected culture, and esepcially popular music - which is now a complete cesspool of toxic influence

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Why Modern Architecture SUCKS

 

Published on Jun 30, 2017

We are being indoctrinated to accept ugliness as a form of beauty.

MUST WATCH: Roger Scruton: “Why Beauty Matters?”

https://vimeo.com/128428182

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I was THRILLED to discover this conversation

"The both perceive the perilous position of the modern university"

"The perception of ...'

Education as... the Conversion to Truth"

Sir Roger Scruton/Dr. Jordan B. Peterson: Apprehending the Transcendent

 

A conversation between Dr. Jordan Peterson and Sir Roger Scruton, moderated by Dr. Stephen Blackwood, introduced by Professor Douglas Hedley, presented by The Cambridge Centre for the Study of Platonism and Ralston College, held on Nov 2, 2018 in Cambridge, England

JBP:
The claim that there is nothing but Power, is the justification for seeking Power
The willful failure to distinguish between Competence & Tyranny.
(It is easier to claim to be a victim than to retool to succeed.)

Sir R:
The risk of the male predator is there.
But our society seems to have lost the ability to CELEBRATE THE NORMAL,
that most men and women are not predators

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Scruton has passed... alas (on Sunday)

Roger Scruton: A Conservative for Modern Times

The academy rejected him in the 1980s. Decades later he told me he’d been one of the first to be ‘canceled.’

c

They say you should never meet your heroes because they always disappoint you. But Sir Roger Scruton, who died Sunday at 75, was as gracious, intelligent and generous in life as he was on the page.

> https://www.wsj.com/articles/roger-scruton-a-conservative-for-modern-times-11578955867?mod=cx_picks&cx_navSource=cx_picks&cx_tag=undefined&cx_artPos=2#cxrecs_s

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