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Where do you want to bring up YOUR children?

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Whats it like in the Summer?

 

Actually talking of good weather, what do people think of Australia or New Zealand? Not been, but on paper: speak English, rich in resources, populace that wants to work (based on Putney bars), and plenty of room?

 

 

Both nice countries, much prefer New Zealand though, it's more down to earth. Ozzies believe their own hype a little too much... Don't think they're all so hard working when your there, big generalisation, but the ones who travel out of Australia are generally the better ones, a lot of Bogans when you go there!

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Whats it like in the Summer?

 

Actually talking of good weather, what do people think of Australia or New Zealand? Not been, but on paper: speak English, rich in resources, populace that wants to work (based on Putney bars), and plenty of room?

The Top soil in Australia is not deep, and it suffers from droughts.

So in future, they may not find it so easy to feed themselves. If there are tsunamis,

most people are on the coast an vulnerable

 

New Zealand is even more vulnerable to quakes and tsunamis, since it is on the Ring of Fire

 

If you have an interest, there are some grim forecast out there about what the future may hold: Red Elk Speaks

 

Both nice countries, much prefer New Zealand though, it's more down to earth. Ozzies believe their own hype a little too much... Don't think they're all so hard working when your there, big generalisation, but the ones who travel out of Australia are generally the better ones, a lot of Bogans when you go there!

 

Was there ever a guy called Bogan?

If so, he must have been very annoying.

Maybe he expected the Life of his cousin, Reilly, and when he didn't get it he became a nuissance.

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Despite all these issues, Singapore tends to make safe and sensible decisions and does a wonderful PR job. However I would prefer my kids to see real life, warts and all, rather than taking part in some bizarre social experiment.

 

I think kids will ultimately get a lot out of the way we are going to have to live in the west. It will purge us of our lazy and wasteful ways, encourage self reliance and renew our ability to compete with the east. Kids will learn through the mistakes of the current generation. That will be far more valuable than being brought up in a cosseted bubble in a superficially wealthy enclave.

+1

 

Is "nationalism" so dead and buried, and the idea of belonging to some tribe? Children will always benefit from belonging to a culture with a history. What is the point of "material success" in a purely economic/ consumer-driven "society"? Looks more like spiritual impoverishment/ alienation to me.

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Despite all these issues, Singapore tends to make safe and sensible decisions and does a wonderful PR job. However I would prefer my kids to see real life, warts and all, rather than taking part in some bizarre social experiment.

 

I think kids will ultimately get a lot out of the way we are going to have to live in the west. It will purge us of our lazy and wasteful ways, encourage self reliance and renew our ability to compete with the east. Kids will learn through the mistakes of the current generation. That will be far more valuable than being brought up in a cosseted bubble in a superficially wealthy enclave.

+1

 

Is "nationalism" so dead and buried, and the idea of belonging to some tribe? Children will always benefit from belonging to a culture with a history. What is the point of "material success" in a purely economic/ consumer-driven "society"? Looks more like spiritual impoverishment/ alienation to me.

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+1

 

Is "nationalism" so dead and buried, and the idea of belonging to some tribe? Children will always benefit from belonging to a culture with a history. What is the point of "material success" in a purely economic/ consumer-driven "society"? Looks more like spiritual impoverishment/ alienation to me.

Want to consider HIGHER RISK scenarios - Where Race and even accent may matter ?

 

There's a new thread in the Fringe section about more extreme preparations, here's an excerpt

We must preserve our physical body in order to ascend to a higher spiritual life. The year 2012 is a blessing in disguise. We still have the divine right of our freedom to choose. Whatever lies in our future is not known. Fear of the unknown only attracts negative energy and does not solve any problem.

 

Remember the four principals of life:

 

1. Believe what happens must have a purpose.

2. Prepare yourself to face the problem and do not run away.

3. Solve the problem in the best way you can.

4. Have no regret of what you did and let go of the past.

 

Like a salmon, we will eventually reach our spawning ground if not in this life, we will succeed in our next.

Another suggestion in the same advice was:

"For personal safety one should be located in a low density farming community. Of course warm climate is more preferable than a cold one. Ability to speak the local dialet is also a consideration. You don't want to be in a country hostile to your race. (Foreigners or people with strange accents may be scapegoated.)"

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John Michael Greer, the Arch-Druid blogmeister, has moved !

 

1198-1-1450.jpg

 

Cumberland, Allegany County, Maryland (elevation: 945 feet)

Incorporated 1815 (Chapter 136, Acts of 1815)

Named, as was Fort Cumberland, to honor George II's son, William Augustus (1721-1765), Duke of Cumberland.

 

Population

1990 census: 23,712

2000 census: 21,518

2010 census: 20,859

 

"The Queens City", and old transport hub, from times past.

Does he know something, we should also know?

 

276: The Lure of the Apocalypse Meme - Sept. 21, 2011

 

MP3: http://c-realmpodcast.podomatic.com/enclosure/2011-09-21T14_57_44-07_00.mp3

 

"The Lure... you don't have to clean up your messes..."

 

KMO welcomes John Michael Greer back to the C-Realm Podcast to talk about millennialism and our human attraction to the idea of the impending end of the world, which is the topic of John Michael's newest book, Apocalypse Not: Everything You Know About 2012, Nostradamus and the Rapture Is Wrong. The wide-ranging conversation touches on UFOs, the Technological Singularity, the Mayan calendar, and the efforts of one formerly industrial town to re-invent itself and thrive in the emerging post-industrial economy

/source: http://c-realmpodcast.podomatic.com/player/web/2011-09-21T14_57_44-07_00

/source:

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Having grown up in HK, I would have to say I would not want to raise my children there. Why? Pollution, lack of space and outdoor activities, education system/mentality highly geared towards results, repetition, etc. i.e. little emphasis on creativity, thinking outside the box, and even sports/physical activity. If you are part of the elite rich, you will not have to worry as much about this.

 

On the positive side, extremely safe (wouldn't be concerned if my children wondered around the streets at night!) great place to be in your 20's IMO. And if you need it an abundant supply of relatively cheap domestic helpers which you could just not get/afford in the UK/US.

 

The West is getting a lot of stick nowadays, but if job security was a given I would choose to raise my family in the nice parts of USA or UK.

 

I have family friends who have moved to Malaysia and enjoy it, but they waited until their children grew up before moving there.

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UK.

 

I've lived in the same house for 20 years, have raised my children (to early teens so far) here and am part of the community here. I cannot imagine moving except for short term work or travel.

 

The climate on the south coast is benign but interesting in that English way. The garden is productive and most of my needs can be met within walking or cycling distance. An hourly bus runs through the village and there's an hourly train to London from a station 4 miles away. In the other direction, 20 minutes stroll through fields takes me to ' our' beach. What more could you want?

 

UK public healthcare is excellent (any rich country without decent public healthcare is barbaric) and law and order is sound.

 

I can't speak for the schools as I've used only the independent system[1]. Had I not had the money, I'd have home educated and the UK is pretty supportive of this method.

 

Basically, I'm fortunate to live in a strong community. But, if I didn't, I wouldn't seek one in a country where I was a stranger who maybe didn't even speak the language.

 

[1] believing that most schools, like prisons, are no place for children, mine have been sent to very liberal boarding schools.

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Ideally in several different countries.

 

Perhaps south America until the age of 16, followed by four years study in Europe.

 

Get to try two ways of living, two ways of learning and two ways of speaking.. what better start in life?

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Another suggestion in the same advice was:

"For personal safety one should be located in a low density farming community. Of course warm climate is more preferable than a cold one. Ability to speak the local dialet is also a consideration. You don't want to be in a country hostile to your race. (Foreigners or people with strange accents may be scapegoated.)"

 

Many people are of the mind that low density will be safer, but I remain unconvinced. The cities have more institutions: police, fire, bureaucracies (which are not all bad), and law-and-order generally, for better or worse. In low density communities one is more vulnerable in many ways; no one will hear you scream as you get killed. During many times in history the cities have provided safety while traveling through the countryside was fraught with danger.

 

An ideal location may be within a cohesive community within an urban setting, or within an inner suburb on a rail line. All these condominiums and townhouse communities may actually have a positive social function after all.

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Head for the Hills?

 

Many people are of the mind that low density will be safer, but I remain unconvinced. The cities have more institutions: police, fire, bureaucracies (which are not all bad), and law-and-order generally, for better or worse. In low density communities one is more vulnerable in many ways; no one will hear you scream as you get killed. During many times in history the cities have provided safety while traveling through the countryside was fraught with danger.

 

An ideal location may be within a cohesive community within an urban setting, or within an inner suburb on a rail line. All these condominiums and townhouse communities may actually have a positive social function after all.

Which is why you need to be in regular contact and good terms with your neighbors. A small town or village in an agricultural area might be best, and I would recommend something at least 300 feet, and maybe almost 1000 feet above sealevel (just in case)

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UK.

 

I've lived in the same house for 20 years, have raised my children (to early teens so far) here and am part of the community here. I cannot imagine moving except for short term work or travel.

 

The climate on the south coast is benign but interesting in that English way. The garden is productive and most of my needs can be met within walking or cycling distance. An hourly bus runs through the village and there's an hourly train to London from a station 4 miles away. In the other direction, 20 minutes stroll through fields takes me to ' our' beach. What more could you want?

 

UK public healthcare is excellent (any rich country without decent public healthcare is barbaric) and law and order is sound.

 

I can't speak for the schools as I've used only the independent system[1]. Had I not had the money, I'd have home educated and the UK is pretty supportive of this method.

 

Basically, I'm fortunate to live in a strong community. But, if I didn't, I wouldn't seek one in a country where I was a stranger who maybe didn't even speak the language.

 

[1] believing that most schools, like prisons, are no place for children, mine have been sent to very liberal boarding schools.

 

I don't dispute the positive things you and others are saying about the UK, but boy are you painting an idyllic - distinctly Southern - picture. Life in a post-industrial Northern town could not be more different. My own experiences are the polar opposite of the many pleasant anecdotes in this thread. And unless I can somehow become a multi-millionaire and move to the heart of Surrey I have no intention of bringing up my kids in the UK.

 

I find the comments about the materialist superficial culture of Singapore slightly hard to fathom. Do people honestly think the collective values of the UK are any better? Is raising your children in close proximity to a feral underclass community in London meant to be in some way edifying? I know Guardian columnists think so, but after a few more lootings and riots I think such warped thinking may change.

 

I've travelled extensively in India and I can tell you it's the most materialist consumer culture I've ever seen. Bollywood and cricket stars on billboards on every street selling everything from motorbikes to designer underwear and mobile phones. And many Westerners go there to cleanse themselves of decadent consumerism!

 

My point is, it all comes down to individuals and families. I think the people on this thread who are vouching for the UK probably have strong families and probably do a very good job of raising their kids. You could probably accomplish the same thing in any country.

 

I think the UK is a noxious place to raise kids, especially if you can't afford decent schooling. I think our collective culture, values, behaviour and urban environments are absolutely toxic. Our children have been empirically shown to be the unhappiest in the developed world.

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I've travelled extensively in India and I can tell you it's the most materialist consumer culture I've ever seen. Bollywood and cricket stars on billboards on every street selling everything from motorbikes to designer underwear and mobile phones. And many Westerners go there to cleanse themselves of decadent consumerism!

 

My point is, it all comes down to individuals and families. I think the people on this thread who are vouching for the UK probably have strong families and probably do a very good job of raising their kids. You could probably accomplish the same thing in any country.

 

I think the UK is a noxious place to raise kids, especially if you can't afford decent schooling. I think our collective culture, values, behaviour and urban environments are absolutely toxic. Our children have been empirically shown to be the unhappiest in the developed world.

 

 

Excellent appraisal.

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I don't dispute the positive things you and others are saying about the UK, but boy are you painting an idyllic - distinctly Southern - picture. Life in a post-industrial Northern town could not be more different. My own experiences are the polar opposite of the many pleasant anecdotes in this thread.

 

Have to agree, my memories of growing up was not exactly idyllic either (midland ex-industrial city).

 

However, now living in a nice suburb (and having met lots of people that were brought up in the countryside) I can see why people like the UK.

 

That said, it always surprises me, when we have foreign post grad students (from France & Italy mainly) coming here to study, just how shocked and appalled they are at the way the youth behave in the city on a Saturday night (totally drunk, fighting, pi**ing in the street, throwing up, and that's just the girls - falling down - in short skirts with no knickers!)

 

Makes you proud <_<

 

While I know it's not perfect, We have several friends now over in France that tell us their kids remain kids for about 2 or 3 years longer than those in the UK.

 

I still plan to move (to France hopefully) in the next few years.

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I don't dispute the positive things you and others are saying about the UK, but boy are you painting an idyllic - distinctly Southern - picture. Life in a post-industrial Northern town could not be more different. My own experiences are the polar opposite of the many pleasant anecdotes in this thread. And unless I can somehow become a multi-millionaire and move to the heart of Surrey I have no intention of bringing up my kids in the UK.

 

I intended (but was posting tortuously from a phone) to caveat the post with a note about context being important and that all nations vary massively from town to country and even suburb to suburb. France may well be reported as "wonderful" but would you choose to raise your kids in the banlieues?

 

And yes, to a degree, this is a conversation about money. Malaysia may also be "wonderful" but I've seen the shanties there and I wouldn't want to be poor there.

 

I've travelled extensively in India and I can tell you it's the most materialist consumer culture I've ever seen. Bollywood and cricket stars on billboards on every street selling everything from motorbikes to designer underwear and mobile phones. And many Westerners go there to cleanse themselves of decadent consumerism!

 

My point is, it all comes down to individuals and families. I think the people on this thread who are vouching for the UK probably have strong families and probably do a very good job of raising their kids. You could probably accomplish the same thing in any country.

 

I think the UK is a noxious place to raise kids, especially if you can't afford decent schooling. I think our collective culture, values, behaviour and urban environments are absolutely toxic. Our children have been empirically shown to be the unhappiest in the developed world.

 

Forget the collective. As you point out, you can't run away from consumerism - it's everywhere. The best outcome is to live in a community that sees it for the emptiness that it is and the best place for Brits to find, create or contribute to such a community is in the UK. If you can't find like minded people in the UK, you'll be even harder pressed to do so where you don't speak the language and are perpetually the outsider.

 

Re: education - Schools suck. Teach your children at home. The UK has fantastic networks of parents doing this.

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I intended (but was posting tortuously from a phone) to caveat the post with a note about context being important and that all nations vary massively from town to country and even suburb to suburb. France may well be reported as "wonderful" but would you choose to raise your kids in the banlieues?

 

And yes, to a degree, this is a conversation about money. Malaysia may also be "wonderful" but I've seen the shanties there and I wouldn't want to be poor there.

 

 

 

Forget the collective. As you point out, you can't run away from consumerism - it's everywhere. The best outcome is to live in a community that sees it for the emptiness that it is and the best place for Brits to find, create or contribute to such a community is in the UK. If you can't find like minded people in the UK, you'll be even harder pressed to do so where you don't speak the language and are perpetually the outsider.

 

Re: education - Schools suck. Teach your children at home. The UK has fantastic networks of parents doing this.

 

Much respect to you JTB for home-schooling. I'm not sure I could do it. But it does strike me as the greatest act of self-sufficiency one can make, ie. to properly raise your own child.

 

People argue kids need to go to schools to be properly 'socialised'. I say they go there to be destroyed as free-thinking human beings and happy individuals. As long as your kids get good experience of work, business and the workplace (not to mention community and charitable activities) I don't see why they won't grow up properly 'integrated'.

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Forget the collective. As you point out, you can't run away from consumerism - it's everywhere. The best outcome is to live in a community that sees it for the emptiness that it is and the best place for Brits to find, create or contribute to such a community is in the UK. If you can't find like minded people in the UK, you'll be even harder pressed to do so where you don't speak the language and are perpetually the outsider.

 

Re: education - Schools suck. Teach your children at home. The UK has fantastic networks of parents doing this.

No one here is talking about it yet... WALKABLE NEIGHBORHOODS*

 

saratoga-broadway.jpg

Sarasota Springs, NY

 

I think you can find many good places to live in America - but you may need to explore a bit. Perhaps JH Kunstler has it right, and there will be a revival of small cities and towns, such as Sarasota Springs, NY and Troy, NY where Duncan Creary lives.

==== ====

 

*The Most Walkable Cities in America

With the birth of the automobile came suburban sprawl, but today, there’s an increasing movement toward more walkable cities.

 

“I think people would rather not be in their cars,” said Jim Chrisman, senior vice president of development at Stapleton , a highly walkable neighborhood in Denver, Colorado. “There are plenty of cities that are very walkable , but they’re not always pedestrian-friendly. If you can make it pleasant, that’s a place people will want to go.”

 

So what makes a city walkable?

 

“Typically, there is a center, whether that’s a main street or commercial strip. There tend to be enough people living in an area for businesses to flourish. Public transit runs frequently , and typically you’ll find parks and a lot of open public spaces,” said Josh Herst, CEO of WalkScore , a site that analyzes cities for their walkability.

 

Plus, there need to be a lot of corners and shorter blocks, which inherently feel more walkable than longer blocks.

 

Walkable cities not only feel safer, but they promote exercise and health and they’re very social as you’re constantly running into neighbors.

 

Every house in Stapleton has a front porch and the garages are out back, plus there are pocket parks, public pools and other shared amenities. “It’s about connecting people, not just connecting to places,” said Heidi Majerik, a director of development for Stapleton who also happens to live there.

 

Not only is it social, but it’s also green. They have a “Stapleton Moms” group online, where parents can plan things like a block Easter egg hunt, exchange of old baby clothes and gear – or even borrow a grown-up dress for a formal event from another mom!

. . .

There’s an economic benefit for homeowners: Homes in walkable cities hold their value better than those that were heavily reliant on driving, according to Smart Growth America, a group that promotes “smart growth” instead of suburban sprawl.

 

Walkable cities have always been desirable. But $4-a-gallon gasoline has only increased their appeal. In a recent poll from the National Association of Realtors, half of the respondents said they would prefer to live in a neighborhood that had a mix of shops, housing and businesses as opposed to just a straight residential neighborhood.

 

Here are the 10 most walkable cities in America.

(These are the big urban areas, but there are walkable small towns too.)

 

+ Best walkable small towns,

+ "" "": In NC & SC

 

"Good quality of life without needing a car (everyday)"

 

Top 25 Mid-Sized Cities (Populations of 100,000 to 499,999)

1 Buffalo, N.Y.

2 Scottsdale, Ariz.

3 Pittsburgh, Pa.

4 Savannah, Ga.

5 New Orleans, La.

6 Charleston, S.C

7 Cleveland, Ohio

8 Atlanta, Ga.

9 Athens, Ga.

10 Minneapolis, Minn.

11 St. Petersburg, Fla.

12 Alexandria, Va.

13 Ann Arbor, Mich.

14 Rochester, N.Y.

15 Providence, R.I.

16 Miami, Fla.

17 Tacoma, Wash.

18 Cincinnati, Ohio

19 Colorado Springs, Colo.

20 Honolulu, Hawaii

21 Kansas City, Mo.

22 Salt Lake City, Utah

23 Tampa, Fla.

24 Raleigh, N.C.

25 St. Louis, Mo.

 

Read more: http://www.city-data.com/forum/general-u-s/383267-where-artists-live-us-agriculture-small-6.html#ixzz1aILLjdC8

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Much respect to you JTB for home-schooling. I'm not sure I could do it. But it does strike me as the greatest act of self-sufficiency one can make, ie. to properly raise your own child.

 

People argue kids need to go to schools to be properly 'socialised'. I say they go there to be destroyed as free-thinking human beings and happy individuals. As long as your kids get good experience of work, business and the workplace (not to mention community and charitable activities) I don't see why they won't grow up properly 'integrated'.

 

I've articulated myself poorly - scroll back up and you'll see that my children are privately educated at eye watering expense. But, were I not in the position to do that, I'd have followed the home education route.

 

My own education included a crappy comprehensive, boarding at a very top independent, and home school. You'd have to ask my parents why!

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EXAMPLE - This sounds like a good place to bring up children

 

Hendersonville, North Carolina : Wiki

"The hometown of Charlie Rose."

 

2953154336_100fcf89af.jpg

Hendersonville, North Carolina

The city of Hendersonville North Carolina is big enough to have plenty of shopping options, but not so large as to be intimidating.

 

The city exhibits its historic roots through the preservation and prevalence of classic homes and buildings.

 

Brand new developments mixed in with these historic homes, is a sign of the area’s growth and prosperity.

 

Hendersonville has a population of 12,223 people within the city and about 93,817 people in the immediate area.

 

Serving as the county seat of Henderson Count, North Carolina, which has a total population of 93,817 people, Hendersonville NC enjoys a location that provides it with incredible scenery, a lovely climate and proximity to many sources of fun and adventure.

 

Located in between the city of Asheville NC and the South Carolina border, Hendersonville NC is in a great position to enjoy rivers, lakes and mountains, as well as a number of other great towns and cities of all sizes.

 

The surrounding land is accented by mountains and hills covered in hardwoods and pines, and refreshed by waterfalls and streams.

 

Hendersonville NC is just off of I-26 which runs north and south, and off of Route 64 which connects east and west.

 

Asheville NC is a half hour to the north and Spartanburg SC is an hour to the south. Charlotte NC is two hours to the east, and the Pisgah National Forest is about fifteen minutes east.

 

/see: http://placesofvalue.com/best-places-to-live-in-north-carolina/north-carolina-piedmont-area/hendersonville-nc/

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Something I've noticed about American sites and discussions is the need to find car-free "solutions"; be that neighbourhoods or technological fixes.

 

Over here, if you want to live car-free, it's simple - you sell your car. Job done.

 

OK, you'd be a bit challenged (and daft) if you were to do this in some remote rural village but, then, most people live in towns or cities. Even after a few decades of pro-car policies, public transport in towns ranges from the usable through to the excellent. And pretty much everywhere is walkable and cyclable. I may frequently rant about the imperfections but having been practically arrested for attempting to walk around parts of the USA, I have realised we have a pretty good deal here.

 

In the UK, car-free is a state of mind not a piece of government infrastructure or legislation.

 

Although I currently own a car, I've spent most of my life without one. And, despite this being one of the areas with the highest per capita rates of car ownership in the country, I've never had any difficulty travelling for business or with family.

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I don't dispute the positive things you and others are saying about the UK, but boy are you painting an idyllic - distinctly Southern - picture. Life in a post-industrial Northern town could not be more different. My own experiences are the polar opposite of the many pleasant anecdotes in this thread. And unless I can somehow become a multi-millionaire and move to the heart of Surrey I have no intention of bringing up my kids in the UK....

 

.....I think the UK is a noxious place to raise kids, especially if you can't afford decent schooling. I think our collective culture, values, behaviour and urban environments are absolutely toxic. Our children have been empirically shown to be the unhappiest in the developed world.

 

I take the point, the North of England (or any other peripheral region) is challenging, but in a way also has inbuilt coping mechanisms through the following:

- Aspirations are lower. This is not meant as an insult to my fellow inhabitants but there is less inclination to show off with material wealth. Probably a natural consequence of not having great material wealth to show off with.

- Homogeneity. You may call it universal deprivation but it is really just a low turnover of population leading to greater community. Also covers a cultural aspect where, for the greater part, ethnic minorities are concentrated in specific (urban) areas, able to form their own support networks.

- Previous experience of decline. Hard times are not new to the people of Liverpool, Glasgow etc. In fact a hard life is only really news now that it is impinging upon the formerly affluent South East.

Sure there will be big problems, but there are also resources to work with here.

Some will use stored financial wealth to ride it out (unsustainable) , some will use innate coping mechanisms (sustainable), others will fail entirely.

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I think Munich is a pretty cool place to raise kids.

 

It's extremely safe, the locals are not very materialistic at all and seem quite keen on recyling and saving, it's an outdoorsy lifestyle with cyling, skiing etc, people tend to cycle to work and car ownership seems relatively low. You can also get UK tv via satellite so you don't have to miss out on the british sense of humour completely....

 

I don't know much about the schooling system though... not sure if it encourages problem solving, creative thinking or not.

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Community at the end of the road.. literally. Met some kids playing here by the loch with the deer.

That place is stunningly beautiful. Scotland I presume?

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- Previous experience of decline. Hard times are not new to the people of Liverpool, Glasgow etc. In fact a hard life is only really news now that it is impinging upon the formerly affluent South East.

 

 

As you mention clearly it is 'the formerly affluent' SE.There would be a natural exodus. Also economic immigrants are primarily based around the South East. The disruption to life will be noticed more in SE imo

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