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The case for $20,000 Gold

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I think if there is a another deflationary crash like in '08 it could well be that everyone rushes out of government bonds to physical metal this time. The deflationist like Prechter & Foss are still waiting to buy gold at sub $600, I think they will be waiting a longtime while continuing to hold their depreciating dollars.

Let's have a closer look here. I'll start at 2004 (because that's when I started :) )

 

I have 200,000 dollars. I go for 100,000 with Ian Gordon's gold call, B&H. The other 100,000 I'll go for Prechter/Foss's advice and hold cold hard cash 'just like the ones you have in your wallet'.

 

So today I open up my piggy bank and sure enough my cold hard dollars are still there. I made a bit of interest but this was soon lost after rates went to zero and inflation started stealing my money.

 

In the other piggy bank my 100,000 worth of gold is still there and the 'value' is now 500,000 dollars, if cashed in. I can buy 3 or 4 average properties or 1 really nice one with land and cottage in xxxx.

 

 

My 'advisors' are still recommending their same strategies. As the Americans like to say, 'Go Figure'. :blink:

 

PS Thanks r2.

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You guys are a little BEYOND BELIEF,

...and sometimes I think you may never make it as traders, or investors over the long term.

 

I am surprised that you have not yet learned this important lesson:

 

THE TIME to listen to someone who has been wrong for a long time, is when those who have an opposing

point of view are pushing hard to get them to eat their words.

 

Remember: People like Eric Sprott, Bill Murphy, and even Jim Sinclair are no "on your side."

They each have a product to sell. (As a wise person interviewed by Catherine Austin-Fitts put it:

"A pig farmer will always suggest you eat ham sandwiches.") The fact that they are saying what you

want to hear does not make them right, and does not make them good advisers.

 

NOW is a good time to seek out and listen to contrary opinions.

 

I am long Gold, but I am also long history, and this is something that good traders need to learn.

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You guys are a little BEYOND BELIEF,

...and sometimes I think you may never make it as traders, or investors over the long term.

 

I am surprised that you have not yet learned this important lesson:

 

THE TIME to listen to someone who has been wrong for a long time, is when those who have an opposing

point of view are pushing hard to get them to eat their words.

 

Remember: People like Eric Sprott, Bill Murphy, and even Jim Sinclair are no "on your side."

They each have a product to sell. (As a wise person interviewed by Catherine Austin-Fitts put it:

"A pig farmer will always suggest you eat ham sandwiches.") The fact that they are saying what you

want to hear does not make them right, and does not make them good advisers.

 

NOW is a good time to seek out and listen to contrary opinions.

 

I am long Gold, but I am also long history, and this is something that good traders need to learn.

Fair enough. But I am not a trader. If I was in America I might switch over from gold to real estate now, capitalising on profit and forfeiting possible future gains. Gold has had a good run. But the UK? Time to change to property is now? Or into sterling? Or FTSE?

 

''NOW is a good time to seek out and listen to contrary opinions.''

 

Such as? Foss? (FOFOA offers a good contrary opinion if you ask me). David Morgans advice is always pretty reliable and honest.

 

The thing is, nothing has changed. Currencies are losing their purchasing power. Sure gold might give up a little of her gains. So what? The big picture is still the same. Property is still coming down, cash is inflated away, stocks, well, bit of a risk wouldn't you say?

So what is there to change into?

 

Gordon hasn't been selling me bacon. He's been saving my bacon. If I had listened to Prechter re Gold, I'd be spit roasted by now. And that comes from someone who actually likes what Prechter and Foss have to say! But they have been wrong on gold. Why is it so hard to admit that they have been wrong, I wonder? Or yet to be right.

 

 

Anyway what's so bad with the above example? It's fairly simple B&H story against a 'hold cash' story. It's not factual but just an example.

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Fair enough. But I am not a trader. If I was in America I might switch over from gold to real estate now, capitalising on profit and forfeiting possible future gains. Gold has had a good run. But the UK? Time to change to property is now? Or into sterling? Or FTSE?

 

''NOW is a good time to seek out and listen to contrary opinions.''

 

Such as? Foss? (FOFOA offers a good contrary opinion if you ask me). David Morgans advice is always pretty reliable and honest.

 

The thing is, nothing has changed. Currencies are losing their purchasing power. Sure gold might give up a little of her gains. So what? The big picture is still the same. Property is still coming down, cash is inflated away, stocks, well, bit of a risk wouldn't you say?

So what is there to change into?

 

Gordon hasn't been selling me bacon. He's been saving my bacon. If I had listened to Prechter re Gold, I'd be spit roasted by now. And that comes from someone who actually likes what Prechter and Foss have to say! But they have been wrong on gold. Why is it so hard to admit that they have been wrong, I wonder? Or yet to be right.

 

 

Anyway what's so bad with the above example? It's fairly simple B&H story against a 'hold cash' story. It's not factual but just an example.

That's a valid point ("where to go?")

But there are times when Cash will be King. Or simply doing some hedging.

 

Yes. I would listen to Foss and Prechter now - because of what is happening to Oil prices,

and what might happen to Copper. If copper started falling fast, I would study their comments

very closely.

 

My view is that Copper may lead Gold in the next big move.

 

I would also watch China closely. China and HK's Hang Seng led US stocks down.

 

If copper / Hang Seng / and China were all firm, I would be much less worried.

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That's a valid point ("where to go?")

But there are times when Cash will be King. Or simply doing some hedging.

 

Yes. I would listen to Foss and Prechter now - because of what is happening to Oil prices,

and what might happen to Copper. If copper started falling fast, I would study their comments

very closely.

 

My view is that Copper may lead Gold in the next big move.

 

I would also watch China closely. China and HK's Hang Seng led US stocks down.

 

If copper / Hang Seng / and China were all firm, I would be much less worried.

You are probably right. Well the speed of gold's rise has been too fast and I would welcome a corection to 1500 or even under. My cash is ready and waiting. This has 'supposed' to have happened countless times though and I think you'd have to be fast. There are many waiting to buy the dips, it would seem. To me the dips seem to be getting less and last but a few hours or so.

 

Can you link the copper/hang seng/shanghai for a few days?

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If copper / Hang Seng / and China were all firm, I would be much less worried.

Right on cue;

 

China intensifies purchases of copper

 

By Jack Farchy in Santiago and Javier Blas in London

 

Chinese companies and investors are stepping up their purchases of industrial commodities such as copper, in a show of confidence in the global economy that stands in contrast to the turmoil in western markets.

 

The wave of buying is providing support for metals and minerals prices after commodities prices fell this month at worries about a double-dip. Senior executives at trading houses, mining companies and banks said Chinese consumers had used the recent drop in prices to rebuild stocks…

 

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You are probably right. Well the speed of gold's rise has been too fast and I would welcome a corection to 1500 or even under. My cash is ready and waiting. This has 'supposed' to have happened countless times though and I think you'd have to be fast. There are many waiting to buy the dips, it would seem. To me the dips seem to be getting less and last but a few hours or so.

 

Can you link the copper/hang seng/shanghai for a few days?

Sorry Jake but I think the chance of getting gold at below $1700 are gone. I feel those that are talking deflation are always looking for gold to go down below where it actually does, so always end up sat on the sidelines.

 

Even JPM is saying that gold will be at $2500 before the year is out.

 

 

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Sorry Jake but I think the chance of getting gold at below $1700 are gone. I feel those that are talking deflation are always looking for gold to go down below where it actually does, so always end up sat on the sidelines.

 

Even JPM is saying that gold will be at $2500 before the year is out.

I know, Pix. But it went down to 1710 on Th/Fri ;) from 1917 before zooming back over 1800. So, deflationist or not, I am not sat on the sidelines. Still...I would 'welcome' 1500 or any nice dip.

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You guys are a little BEYOND BELIEF,

...and sometimes I think you may never make it as traders, or investors over the long term.

 

I am surprised that you have not yet learned this important lesson:

 

THE TIME to listen to someone who has been wrong for a long time, is when those who have an opposing

point of view are pushing hard to get them to eat their words.

 

Remember: People like Eric Sprott, Bill Murphy, and even Jim Sinclair are no "on your side."

They each have a product to sell. (As a wise person interviewed by Catherine Austin-Fitts put it:

"A pig farmer will always suggest you eat ham sandwiches.") The fact that they are saying what you

want to hear does not make them right, and does not make them good advisers.

 

NOW is a good time to seek out and listen to contrary opinions.

 

I am long Gold, but I am also long history, and this is something that good traders need to learn.

Neither Bill Murphy or Jim Sinclair have a product to sell, you can't buy gold from either of them!

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Neither Bill Murphy or Jim Sinclair have a product to sell, you can't buy gold from either of them!

LOL.

You think not ??

 

Murphy is selling the message of GATA and the "Wild Bill conspiracy website", and JS is selling Tan Range shares alongside his perma-bull website. His deeper game? I am not sure, but I have my theories about it.

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LOL.

You think not ??

 

Murphy is selling the message of GATA and the "Wild Bill conspiracy website", and JS is selling Tan Range shares alongside his perma-bull website. His deeper game? I am not sure, but I have my theories about it.

The websites of GATA and jsmineset are provided for free they have no advertising and no subscription costs, so how are they selling these?

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The websites of GATA and jsmineset are provided for free they have no advertising and no subscription costs, so how are they selling these?

I have met Bill Murphy, and I think he has an agenda beyond "bringing the truth out." Amongst other things, he must have a huge long position on Gold which benefits when "converts" buy the metal.

 

I have not met Jim Sinclair, and he may be exactly what he claims to be: a person wanting to share his considerable knowledge of the Gold market. But by chance, he is a big owner of of Gold royalty company, and is also long gold and gold shares. But if you ask me if he has another agenda, I cannot say for sure. So maybe I should go easy in commenting on him here.

 

Jim Turk is very upfront and transparent in promoting his GoldMoney business, and I am a customer of GM and also a supporter of his business ambitions.

 

But like the others, he is not there "to help you". They all have some sort of agenda.

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I have met Bill Murphy, and I think he has an agenda beyond "bringing the truth out." Amongst other things, he must have a huge long position on Gold which benefits when "converts" buy the metal.

 

I have not met Jim Sinclair, and he may be exactly what he claims to be: a person wanting to share his considerable knowledge of the Gold market. But by chance, he is a big owner of of Gold royalty company, and is also long gold and gold shares. But if you ask me if he has another agenda, I cannot say for sure. So maybe I should go easy in commenting on him here.

 

Jim Turk is very upfront and transparent in promoting his GoldMoney business, and I am a customer of GM and also a supporter of his business ambitions.

 

But like the others, he is not there "to help you". They all have some sort of agenda.

I think you see green lizards and conspiracies everywhere. rolleyes.gif

 

Sure Bill Murphy, Jim Sinclair & James Turk will benefit greatly from gold increasing in price, but I don't think they put out information to try to advance the price. I have honestly found all three to be very helpful in helping me to understand what is going on. The most helpful has been Jim Sinclair and he hasn't made a penny out of me.

 

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Sure Bill Murphy, Jim Sinclair & James Turk will benefit greatly from gold increasing in price,

but I don't think they put out information to try to advance the price.

LOL.

I have a bridge to sell you in Brooklyn

 

brooklyn_bridge_-_new_york_city.jpg

 

She's a beauty !

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I think there's quite a decent chance that almost all the complacent Gold bulls here will be wrong,

and we could see a much deeper selloff in Gold than most here could contemplate, deeper even than 2008.

 

If it happens, please remember who was a "lonely voice of reason" here. (It won't be the first time

that I have played that role on GEI and eleswhere.)

 

Having said that, I have made money on Gold's rise, and am now trying to find ways of limiting my losses,

if it should fall back. I am far from a perma-Bear on Gold (I've been long all the way up, whilst doing

some trading in and out.)

 

I heard today, that there is now more money in GLD than there is in SPY, a gigantic etf

If you are so sure that gold is going to fall more than the crash in '08, why don't you put a short on it? Or are these just saying the above to hedge.

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In all fairness, I don't think Turk, Murphy or Sinclair reaaly have any effect on the Gold market. Up until this year, I didn't really know who any of them were. I doubt 99% of Gold investors do either.

 

Ps. We all have an agenda, hidden or not.

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A little about Jim Sinclair's background -

 

http://chasegalleryconnect.org/FNC_C/Data/Personal%20Finance,%20Investing,%20Estates,%20Retirement/Tools&Techniques/Personae/Jim%20Sinclair/James%20E.%20Sinclair,%20his%20father%20Bert%20Seligman,%20Jesse%20Livermore,%20....html

 

Q: Jim, you used margin when you where building your foundation. I am young and willing to accept risk. So Jim, what's your problem?

 

A: Let me answer your question under two subheadings for simplicity's sake.

 

 

Responsibility

 

Few who write on the Web fully recognize the responsibility they have to their readers. I would also suggest that this statement applies equally to those in the print and electronic media as well. In contributing to the debate on questions of the day - whether they be economic, political, or both - you need to consider your words with attention and care, especially when someone else's livelihood is at stake.

 

 

Training

 

My father is Bertram J. Seligman. From simple observation and a study of history, I believe he was the greatest trader that ever lived. Yes, greater than Jesse Livermore who befriended Bert because of his talent.

 

Bert traded like an old master painted. He used to trade 10% of the NYSE's volume and ended the day with a 500 share position. He taught me to trade from as far back as I can remember. I sat beside him in the car, in the office, and in the house.

 

We failed miserably as father and son but succeeded beyond anyone's wildest imagination as partners. He was also a business man. He financed the first movies in aircraft via "In-flight Motion Pictures, Inc." He put the first refrigeration device in trucks via "Thermo King Inc."

 

A partner of Smith Barney who ran its trading department had inadvertently become a controlling shareholder in a small company and called Bert when the company asked him to lower his position. Bert took on the man's entire position and control of the company and went on to promote Dr. Land's new camera. The company eventually became Polaroid and Dr. Land visited my home on several occasions.

 

Bert financed a company that had invented a feminine hygiene product called Pursettes which was sold in the U.S. through the 1960's and 1980's. One of the great fortunes he made was in a metals company called Strategic Materials.

 

He was also a partner in deals and trading operations with Jesse Livermore, Old man Kennedy and Arthur Cowen. He invented what is today called the NASDAQ.

 

At my request, he left me totally out of any financial or material inheritance, having given me more than that: the knowledge to spot value in businesses and - more importantly - how to trade for a living.

 

I was in a trading department when I was 12 years old. At 19, I was an over-the-counter market maker maintaining 35 markets. That is the training and qualification you need to handle huge margin positions.

 

During the entire gold market [of the late 80s presumably], I never got a margin call - not because I never made a mistake but rather because I margined myself and if a call was pending I liquidated my holdings before the close of that trading day.

 

I am trained to be a survivor in a battle that takes no prisoners. You may not be. I live markets day and night. I come from the lineage of Jesse Seligman and a famous banking family.

 

Now you will love this. The Cartel of Common interest [The (Gold) Cartel of Common interest is apparently a term that Jim Sinclair used in the 200-2003 timeframe.] is comprised largely of Seligman firms. Yes, my ancestors founded them all except Merrill. Goldman and Lehman are my family's. Many of you made fun of me when I first told you those cartel members had met their match. Well, they have. They face the bloodline of their founder and did not know it until know.

 

Read the book, "Our Crowd," by Stephen Birmingham and it's all there. Markets, metals and entrepreneurialism course through my entire body not just my blood. The market is my mistress but compared to the real life equivalent I thrive on the volatility associated with this one.

 

I am committed totally to markets. I love risk and feel alive only when all is committed. Absolutely nothing else in the material sense interests me. Now that I have played the material game, even that no longer interests me. Money does not interest me. I have given away much more than I have. The game interests me. The game is called building companies and trading markets.

 

Now I am passing my love of this business on to whoever recognizes the gift and is willing to run with it. My two youngest children have chosen to go their own routes outside the financial sphere and my eldest daughter is in my service in Africa. She is an adventurer in her own right but remains uncomfortable with the intensity I show when the bell rings which is her feminine prerogative.

 

For the curious, my name has been James E. Sinclair since the day I was born. My mother was Abbey's Irish Rose. [Don't know what the reference here is. Abbey's Irish Rose is perhaps an obscure (not on Barnes & Noble) Romeo&Juliet-type play or novel. (".. if you have an idea about a love between children of two families at war with one another, either because of specific personal things or because of longstanding geo-political cultural issues, and you write that down, you've got Romeo and Juliet or you've got Abbey's Irish Rose or you've got West Side Story and so on ..." is the only reference I could find.) ]

 

Posted On: Wednesday, February 20, 2008, 5:37:00 PM EST

 

Downward Economic Spiral Gains Momentum Faster Than Expected

 

Author: Jim Sinclair

 

My Dear Extended Family,

 

.........................................................

 

I am half Irish and half Jewish so clearly I love to fight and make money.

 

Respectfully Yours,

Jim

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If you are so sure that gold is going to fall more than the crash in '08, why don't you put a short on it? Or are these just saying the above to hedge.

I buy puts from time-to-time, and hedge my profits.

 

I want to upside, with protection from the downside.

If it falls, I can take my "hedge proceeds" and reinvest more cheaply.

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Here's more...

 

The Warburgs and Rothschilds

 

This is a summary of family ties between the Rothschilds and Warburg families. These two families ties are critical to understanding the flow of investment capital between Europe and the U.S. Their growth and power is interwoven with the historical changes that were taking place in Europe during the 19th century.

. . .

The next generation of Warburgs included Siegmund G Warburg, of Hamburg. He received his initial training at the Rothschild bank in England. When the Nazi's started their takeover, he migrated to England. He started S.G. Warburg of London in 1939. It merged with the Seligman Brothers firm in 1957.

 

By 1874 biographers claimed that the Rothschild, Seligman, Belmont and Morgan alliance had a monopoly in European investments. They were certainly the largest investors in the U.S. as well. August Belmont was Rothschild's front man in the U.S. Belmont was rumored to be a bastard child of the Rothschild family.

 

/see: http://www.energy-net.org/1OVN/NWO-H.HTM

=== === ===

 

"Outing" JIM SINCLAIR: The Sinclair-Rothschild-Goldman Sachs

...www.wakeupfromyourslumber.com/.../outing-jim-sinclair-sinclair-r...

 

Jim Sinclair is also the son of Bertram Seligman whose family started Goldman Sachs, Solomon Brothers, Lehman Brothers and other major investment banking ...

 

/more: http://www.wakeupfromyourslumber.com/blog/pandora/outing-jim-sinclair-sinclair-rothschild-goldman-sachs-lehman-bros-connections

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Sure Bill Murphy, Jim Sinclair & James Turk will benefit greatly from gold increasing in price, but I don't think they put out information to try to advance the price. I have honestly found all three to be very helpful in helping me to understand what is going on. The most helpful has been Jim Sinclair and he hasn't made a penny out of me.

I'll say this that over the years Dr Bubb and Goldfinger have been very helpful to me in pointing out the right direction and to understand what is going on. GF's thoughts charts have been unbelievably good value (for nothing in fact). I also think Dom's articles in Moneyweek and here have been great. Podcasts too. Bubb's site here has also been a real eye opener and useful to traders and non traders alike despite me flipping out recently.(heatstroke). Pix's site is also full of good stuff.

Respect to everyone!

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RESPECT to Jim Sinclair too - see this email...

 

It's Officially Out of Control

 

QUOTE

 

Notice that there have been some surprises for the banksters in this

ride. They are in for many more surprises that will utterly destroy ALL

of the Illuminati plans and dreams. This is due to the intervention of

the Vatican and Yahweh at key points. Look for more interventions from

these sources, including mind numbing "natural disasters" that will make

this so bad that NOTHING WILL MOVE for some time until this mess is

sorted out -- by the Vatican and the Beast!

 

These disasters will happen at the absolute worse times possible.

Remember what Yahweh says in His Word: "Whereas before I took pleasure

in blessing you and prospering you, NOW shall I take pleasure in

destroying you until your cities are laid waste without inhabitant."

 

Read all of Deuteronomy 28, and know that we are approaching the end of

the cycles of curses for our national disobedience to Almighty God!

 

John

 

Officially Out Of Control??

Posted By Jim Sinclair On February 15, 2009

 

Dear Extended Family,

 

I sent you a certain few emails that I consider to be the most important

communications issued in my career that started in 1958.

 

I am the son of what I know to have been the greatest Lone Wolf trader

in Wall Street history ever, Bertram J. Seligman. He was a past master

at his business and believed to be a market sensitive. I apprenticed to

him, learned from him and inherited some of his ability, not all however.

 

From this background of experience understanding and sensitivity the

following flows.

The emails of note:

 

1. Said, "This is it."

2. Said, "It is now."

 

This communication is to inform you as of 2/13/09, "It is totally out of

control." There is no longer any means of reversal of the beginning of

the final phase of the downward spiral now solidly set in motion.

 

For your sake, protect yourselves immediately.

 

Be prepared for disruptions in distribution common to hyperinflation.

 

1. You should have already distanced yourself from your financial

agents. If you haven? you are headed for significant displeasure and

strain.

 

2. Make sure you stay three months ahead on necessary items that could

experience distribution delays such as prescribed medicine and preferred

foods.

 

3. Even though real estate is far from a buy, if you can afford a second

home outside of major cities it would serve a good purpose.

 

4. Own gold.

 

5. Consider that good gold shares of non-US companies incorporated in a

non-US country operating in third country, traded on multiple exchanges

are a means of money expatriation legally and in broad daylight if required.

 

6. For currencies, all you can do is own a spread held by a true

custodial ship wherever that might be.

Simply said, as of Friday February 13th, 2009 the situation is in

confirmed "Out of Control" mode as this well engineered downward spiral

enters into a terminal phase.

 

The motive was profit and degree of the disintegration caused in the

pursuit of this goal was not anticipated.

 

The key event was when Lehman was flushed - all hell broke loose. The

hell cannot be contained in any practical manner.

I seek nothing of you, but the protection of yourselves.

Respectfully yours,

Jim

Article printed from Welcome To Jim Sinclair? MineSet: http://jsmineset.com

http://jsmineset.com/index.php/2009/02/15/officially-out-of-control/

=== UNQUOTE ===

 

/source: http://tech.dir.groups.yahoo.com/group/privacy1/message/3228

 

==== ==== ====

 

But even with that Good-as-Gold advice (which worked well after a little

33% drop in the Gold price)...

 

...It does not mean he has your best interests at heart for the long term.

I do not think Gold is going to infinity - though it is not impossible.

 

I hasten to say that I have not met JS, and if I did, I may change my mind about him

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How about Gerald Celente? He says he's all in (KWN) gold. And his career is

prediction. (Surely that includes mining companies and silver??)

 

I still like Santa and his forcast for gold, even if he is reptillian :huh: LOL The

likelyhood that the whole thing is engineered is high, but that also applies to the

system as a whole.

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