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G0ldfinger

Fukushima I: four reactors in trouble.

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These are the immediate symptoms, it seems. The long term prospects would certainly include cancers of all kind. :(

 

Symptom Benchmarks

0–0.25 Sv: None

0.25–1 Sv: Some people feel nausea and loss of appetite; bone marrow, lymph nodes, spleen damaged.

1–3 Sv: Mild to severe nausea, loss of appetite, infection; more severe bone marrow, lymph node, spleen damage; recovery probable, not assured.

3–6 Sv: Severe nausea, loss of appetite; hemorrhaging, infection, diarrhea, skin peels, sterility; death if untreated.

6–10 Sv: Above symptoms plus central nervous system impairment; death expected.

Above 10 Sv: Incapacitation and death.

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Info for radiation measurements exposure and protocols to protect your health.

 

FACT SHEET

Radiation Measurement

When scientists measure radiation, they use different terms depending on whether they are discussing radiation coming from a radioactive source, the radiation dose absorbed by a person, or the risk that a person will suffer health effects (biological risk) from exposure to radiation. This fact sheet explains some of the terminology used to discuss radiation measurement.

 

click here to read more..........................

http://emergency.cdc.gov/radiation/measurement.asp

 

 

Radiation Emergencies

CDC has a key role in protecting the public's health in an emergency involving the release of radiation that could harm people's health. This site provides information to help people protect themselves during and after such an event. It also provides information for professionals involved in planning for and responding to this type of emergency.

 

more info .................. http://www.bt.cdc.gov/radiation/

 

Definetly get some LUGOLS solution read more why here:- http://emergency.cdc.gov/radiation/ki.asp

Ascorbic acid (vitamin c) and take large multi gram doses

 

I noted yesterday on news from the bbc that a US aircraft carrier 100 miles off shore had detected low levels of radiation on deck and moved the vessel further out to sea to remove any exposure risk.That doesnt bode at all well for the local people.

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Official: Japan's nuclear situation nearing severity of Chernobyl

 

By Alanne Orjoux, CNN | March 15, 2011 | Updated 1912 GMT (0312 HKT)

 

(CNN) -- The explosion Tuesday at Japan's Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant has elevated the situation there to a "serious accident" on a level just below Chernobyl, a French nuclear official said, referring to an international scale that rates the severity of such incidents.

 

The International Nuclear and Radiological Event Scale -- or INES -- goes from Level 1, which indicates very little danger to the general population, to Level 7, a "major accident" in which there's been a large release of radioactive material and there will be widespread health and environmental effects.

 

"It's clear we are at Level 6, that's to say we're at a level in between what happened at Three Mile Island and Chernobyl," Andre-Claude Lacoste, president of France's nuclear safety authority, told reporters Tuesday...

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Things are obviously extremely bad at these plants if they are resorting to using helicopters to get water into the tanks and or reactors to cool down the fuel where it is now quite clear the fuel is exposed to the atmosphere.

 

The only reason they can be using helicopters is because the radiation levels are too high for any other on site method.

 

At this rate they are going to be doing what BP was doing and asking people to come up with methods of making the reactors safe where for example one method is to have a drilling rig enter the reactor from underneath and pump in the water they so desperately need and if necessary pump out the toxic waste with another rig.

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Things are obviously extremely bad at these plants if they are resorting to using helicopters to get water into the tanks and or reactors to cool down the fuel where it is now quite clear the fuel is exposed to the atmosphere.

 

The only reason they can be using helicopters is because the radiation levels are too high for any other on site method.

 

At this rate they are going to be doing what BP was doing and asking people to come up with methods of making the reactors safe.

There's only 50 people on the site. maybe they are having a nap while the helicopters do some work.

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I like ST, I really do. But I find this show of bullishness rather repulsive, even though I know it is the 'name of the game'. . . .

 

Yes, it is a bit vulgar under the circumstances. I agree.

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12754883

 

There has been a fresh fire at the quake-stricken Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant in northern Japan.

 

The new blaze began at reactor four. The plant has already been hit by four explosions, triggering radiation leaks and sparking health concerns.

 

Friday's 9.0-magnitude quake and tsunami in north-east Japan damaged the plant's cooling functions, forcing the operator to use sea water.

 

More than 3,000 have been confirmed dead and thousands are missing.

 

Officials have warned people within 20-30km of the nuclear plant to either leave the area or stay indoors.

 

The Tokyo Electric Power Co, which owns the Fukushima facility, said on Wednesday that efforts were under way to put out the latest fire.

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The thing I dont understand is this: Where is the heat coming from? They said that the control rods had halted the reaction and the heat they are trying to disipate is residule. why does it take so long to cool it down? How big are the fuel rods that they can have such a huge thermal content? I understood the fuel to bepelets the size of a lego brick.

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Back to the ongoing crisis at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant: the Kyodo news agency reports that engineers are spraying boric acid to prevent "recriticality" - presumably, the resumption of a self-sustaining nuclear chain reaction - at reactor 4.

 

From the BBC, now that does not sound good...

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You know, in California, a little north of San Diego, you have a 42 year old nuclear power plant right on the sea, essentially sitting on top of the San Andreas fault.

 

You couldn't make this stuff up.

 

http://www.democracynow.org/2011/3/14/japan_facing_biggest_catastrophe_since_dawn

 

HARVEY WASSERMAN: Well, it’s hugely significant, and it’s a very, very dangerous situation. I should note that the first reactor at Fukushima is identical to the Vermont Yankee plant, and which is now up for relicensing and which the people of Vermont are trying to shut. And we should also note that this kind of accident, this kind of disaster, could have occurred at four reactors in California, had the 9.0-Richter-scale earthquake hit close to Diablo Canyon at San Luis Obispo or San Onofre between L.A. and San Diego. We could very well now be watching Los Angeles or San Diego being evacuated, had this kind of thing happened in California. And, of course, the issue is the same in Vermont. There are 23 reactors in the United States that are identical or close to identical to the first Fukushima reactor.

 

Now, this exposure of fuel is about as bad as it gets. It means that these fuel rods, superheated fuel rods, could melt if they are exposed to water, which they’re trying to pour water in there. It could create radioactive steam, conceivably blow off the containment and result in another Chernobyl and a horrific, horrendous release of radiation that could, and in fact would, come to the United States within a week or so, as the Chernobyl radiation came to California within 10 days. This is about as bad as it gets. And we are not 100 percent sure we’re getting fully accurate information. We only know that the worst case scenario is very much a possibility. There are 10 reactors at the Fukushima site—two separate sites, one with six reactors and one with four. And the fact that a U.S. aircraft carrier has detected significant radiation 60 miles away is very much a dangerous sign. It means that radiation releases are ongoing and probably will only get worse.

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Alert: Fukushima Coverup, 40 Years of Spent Nuclear Rods Blown Sky High

 

 

Yes, it can get worse. The article goes on to say:

 

Earlier today, a report was issued indicating that over 70% of these spent fuel rods are now damaged – in other words, they are emitting radiation or will soon. The disclosure reveals that authorities in Japan – who have consistently played down the danger and issued conflicting information – are guilty of criminal behavior and endangering the lives of countless people.
In times like these I like to think about the power of prayer.

 

Note the position of the spent rods....right at the top where the "harmless" hydrogen explosion blew out the walls:

<script src='http://img851.imageshack.us/shareable/?i=reactor.jpg&p=tl' type='text/javascript'></script><noscript>reactor.jpg</noscript>

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Just listened to some guy from Greenpeace confirming that story.

 

He said that including all the spent nuclear waste and the material in use in the 6 reactors, there is actually the equivalent of 18 nuclear reactors!

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UHOH! [/url] New Headline, 3news (New Zealand)

 

Japan abandons Fukushima nuclear plant over radiation Wed, 16 Mar 2011 3:37p.m. By Eric Talmadge and Shino Yuasa Japan has suspended operations to prevent a stricken nuclear plant from melting down today after a surge in radiation made it too dangerous for workers to remain at the facility. Chief Cabinet Secretary Yukio Edano said work on dousing reactors with water was disrupted by the need to withdraw.
Article continues..http://www.3news.co.nz/Japan-abandons-Fukushima-nuclear-plant-over-radiation/tabid/417/articleID/202638/Default.aspx

 

Funny 'cause I just read Japan passed new legislation to allow radiation exposure five times higher than workers in the US for the 50 or so F'shima plant heroes staying behind.

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I now predict that in the wake of this disaster NZ will decide to open up further and allow/encourage mass migration of Japanese to NZ. This will explode our population and our skill base and *ahem* possibly IQ

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This will explode our population and our skill base and *ahem* possibly IQ

 

Hey!

 

But I will soon be the tallest person in NZ I guess.

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I now predict that in the wake of this disaster NZ will decide to open up further and allow/encourage mass migration of Japanese to NZ. This will explode our population and our skill base and *ahem* possibly IQ

 

More likely continue developing the Far East. Lot of Japanese money in Cambodia, Vietnam, Laos and of course a lot of their manufacturing industry is in Thailand.

 

So no. You ain't havin' 'em.

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The thing I dont understand is this: Where is the heat coming from? They said that the control rods had halted the reaction and the heat they are trying to disipate is residule. why does it take so long to cool it down? How big are the fuel rods that they can have such a huge thermal content? I understood the fuel to bepelets the size of a lego brick.

 

The nuclear fission might have been stopped by the control rods but the decay of the highly radioactive remains of the fuel will produce large amounts of heat as decay drops over about one year to safer levels. Each newly removed spent fuel rod can produce a few hundred kilowatts of power without fission which then drops off over the year or two needed to get to the safer levels to handle the waste.

 

Looking at the situation at the moment they are going to have to come up with some really creative solutions to solve this crisis - as for example using oil rigs to pump product into and out of the reactors while operating from a distance.

 

If the cooling ponds holding the used rods were on top of the reactors it might account for why they are building a road to get to the reactors - the existing road might be covered in the used fuel which of course will all be open and as horrible as hell. However this would have represented a huge one off release and then an ongoing horrible toxicity that the wind can dilute - the world is enormously big.

 

It seems pretty obvious too that the fuel is now rupturing in the reactors also and all of these decay products are going to be smoking their way all over the place. However it is a big world and i am not particularly worried for NZ or Finland.

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I can't find a credible analysis of worst-case effects anywhere. Everyone seems to be focused on what might happen next. I'd rather understand what the worst-case outcome would mean to the world.

 

I believe the worst case goes like this: All three of the previously-active reactors go to full meltdown. Core material hitting subsurface water (after melting through the containment and concrete floor) causes a massive explosion, and the whole facility is engulfed in a massive fire. All of the cooling pools are compromised and all of the spent fuel rods stored on site release all their radiation in one great big gigantic fire.

 

Ok, so what would that mean, specifically? It seems everyone is focused on this 131-I isotope specifically because if you were prescient enough to have KI pills on hand, you could immunize yourself against. But this seems to be a distraction. Several sources have said that those particles have a relatively short half-life of about a week, whereas other much more dangerous particles have much longer half-lives. But they never say how long! Are we talking longer half-lives as in a couple of weeks or as in a couple of hundred thousand years? And how dangerous are these particles anyway, and what impacts would they cause.

 

So far as I can tell, widespread and growing fears about "deadly fallout" reaching the west coast of the USA are greatly overblown and should probably be ignored. But I haven't seen any credible analysis on what WOULD be the long-term effects of a worst-case outcome. Seems to me that most of the radiation would go into the Pacific ocean. I don't know much about this, but I would assume that would mean fisheries in the pacific would have to be shut down. The world is already on the verge of global food riots thanks to inflation. A major source of food being taken offline could be devastating. But I can't find credible analysis anywhere of how much impact fallout would have on fisheries. Or anything else for that matter. Are we talking about a few miles radius around Fukushima being uninhabitable for a few years, or are we talking about serious health risks to large number of people lasting for decades?

 

A related question - I understand that there is no risk of a "nuclear explosion", but I do wonder whether a very large hydrogen explosion is possible if molten core material hits subsurface water. Is there any realistic scenario that causes a large enough explosion to blast the radioactive remains of the spent fuel pools all the way to jet stream altitudes, or is this fallout a strictly tropospheric event in the worst case? Seems to me like if volcanic dust can make it to jet stream altitudes, so could radioactive particles from a huge explosion/fire. But I'm only guessing.

 

Any pointers to credible worst-case analysis much appreciated.

 

Thanks,

Erik

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The nuclear fission might have been stopped by the control rods but the decay of the highly radioactive remains of the fuel will produce large amounts of heat as decay drops over about one year to safer levels. Each newly removed spent fuel rod can produce a few hundred kilowatts of power without fission which then drops off over the year or two needed to get to the safer levels to handle the waste.

 

 

 

Thanks, so the heat comes from the radioactive decay not from the fission.

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I'd rather understand what the worst-case outcome would mean to the world.

 

The worst case requires a method to transport all of this toxic crap into a suspended form into the sea or air - which might then totally dilute it so that it is spread around the entire world or it might lead to very high local contamination and dilution elsewhere.

 

How is the reactor going to create a fire? It is not obvious to me that this reactor can burn in air. If the fuel melts out of the structures holding it then it will pool up at the bottom of the reactor and fission will begin again and all the vapours and decay products will be leaving as a horrible smoke. If the fuel can melt down to water it will create massive amounts of steam and materials and throw bits of reactor around the local area. This is just about the worst it can get - an absolute total disaster.

 

But each new object the fuel has to melt thru means that the fuel is diluted and the fission process has to slow down a little bit more.

 

Dont forget however that volcanic eruptions enable cubic kilometres of ash to travel into the atmosphere. Even my farts can reach the stratosphere. A volcano that produces large amounts of ash is essentially boiling, as previously high pressure rock with gas inside it, boils at the lower pressure surface of the volcano vent, where the heat then causes the ash to rise upwards faster than it falls by gravity.

 

Fine dust from a volcano or reactor will behave in an air like manner and only descend very slowly while at times going upwards faster than it can fall thru the relatively thick air around it.

 

This event might change our lives forever since the whole earth will have a mixture of relatively safe particles and highly hazardous particles as a diluted dust which would make it inpractical to remove since it would just come back again from the areas not cleaned. In time it would be part of the top soil rather than part of the area we are most likely to be in contact with.

 

I am though still not particularly bothered since the earth is just so huge and there are other dangers like walking across the road.

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Emperor on TV, praying for people. Oh dear. looks V bad.

 

Austria moves embassy to Osaka.

 

Tokyo in ruins next?

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