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G0ldfinger

Fukushima I: four reactors in trouble.

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I have you marked as a vociferous nincompoop, which is a bit of a shame

yes, SHAME on you.

 

I'm really annoyed! I got banned for 8 days for saying someone else spouted BS and this (the whole post, not the bit ive quoted) from this guy goes totally unpunished. wtf man 8 days i got for 'BS'! foul language? BS? how is that foul?

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Japanese nuclear accident ongoing

The magnitude 9.0 Miyagiken-Oki earthquake at 2.46 pm on 11 March did considerable damage, and the tsunami it created caused even more. It was centred 130 km offshore of the city of Sendai in Miyagi prefecture on the eastern cost of Honshu Island. Eleven reactors at four nuclear power plants in the region were operating at the time and all shut down automatically when the quake hit. Power was available to run the cooling pumps at most of the units, and they have since achieved cold shutdown. However, at Tepco's Fukushima Daiichi plant, where three reactors were shut down by the earthquake, the emergency diesel generators started as expected but then shut down an hour later when submerged by the tsunami. This sealed the fate of those reactors and led the authorities to order, and subsequently extend, an evacuation while engineers worked to restore power. About nine hours later mobile power supply units had reached the plant and were being connected. Meanwhile units 1-3 had only battery power, insufficient to drive the cooling pumps.

 

The operating units which shut down were Tepco's Fukushima Daiichi 1, 2, 3, Fukushima Daini 1, 2, 3, 4, Tohoku's Onagawa 1, 2, 3, and Japco's Tokai. Onogawa 1 briefly suffered a fire in the non-nuclear turbine building, but the main problem centred on Fukushima Daiichi units 1-3. First, pressure inside the containment structures increased steadily and led to this being vented to the atmosphere on an ongoing basis. Vented gases and vapour included hydrogen, produced by the exothermic interaction of the fuel's very hot zirconium cladding with water. Later on 12th, there was a hydrogen explosion in the building above unit 1 reactor containment, and another one two days later in unit 3, from the venting as hydrogen mixed with air. Then on 15th, unit 2 ruptured its pressure suppression chamber under the actual reactor, releasing some radioactivity. Inside, water levels had dropped, exposing fuel, and this was addressed by pumping seawater into the reactor pressure vessels. The heat from the fuel is now about 3 MW thermal in unit 1 and 4.5 MW in units 2 & 3.

 

Then a separate set of problems arose as the spent fuel ponds in the upper part of the reactor structures were found to be depleted in water. In unit 4, the fuel there got hot enough to form hydrogen, and another hydrogen explosion destroyed the top of the building and damaged unit 3's superstructure further. The focus since has been on replenishing the water in the ponds of units 3 and 4, with some success, through the gaps in the roof and cladding. Unit 4 is undergoing maintenance, and all its 548 fuel assemblies are in that pond, along with other new and used fuel, total 1535 assemblies, giving it a heat load of about 3 MW thermal, according to France's ISRN. Unit 3's pool contains 566 fuel assemblies. (There are also 6375 assemblies in undamaged central pool storage on site and 408 in dry cask storage.)

 

Japan's Nuclear & Industrial Safety Agency eventually declared the accident as Level 5 on INES scale - an accident with wider consequences, the same level as Three Mile Island in 1979. As of early 18 March, no radiation casualties were reported, and few other injuries, though higher than normal doses were being accumulated by several hundred workers on site.

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Breaking news more 'black steam' from number 3 at 16:20. Operators evacuated again. Now saying as i type turning to white again - indicating it is resolving....dont know where it is coming from.

 

http://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/r/movie/

 

But otherwise I cannot find much news of substance available for the nuclear plant in the last few days.

 

1. Pictures are showing workers are able to be around the right of number 4 building more or less wearing what appears to be normal water proof clothing

 

2. Pictures are showing one of the concrete mixers is adding water to the number 4 pool. Plenty of steam visible from this pool - they may be spraying rather than filling the pond to avoid criticality. Criticality requires water.

 

3. The turbine hall of number 2? has been described as highly radioactive - the turbines themselves are likely to be in normal operation highly radioactive due to the design so it is not clear what is going on.

 

4. Temperatures have been measured in 1 2 and 3 reactors. 360C and 390C for two of them. 400 reported today recently.

 

5. Number 2 pool was reported as full of water - it is covered by the roof still. The roof of two is uniformly about 60-80C via IR measurement, which might be due to the steaming pool

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The Tokyo water supply has now been labelled unfit for babies to drink due to high radiation levels (Think it's Iodine levels).

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12825342

 

We had one day last week up here in Glasgow when we were warned not to drink the water due to high Aluminium levels, you wouldn't believe how quickly the bottled water ran out a supermarkets etc.

 

It was surprising just how much you miss it when it's gone for a day.

 

It must be 1000's time worse when it's potentially gone for good, let alone the rest of the problems they have over there.

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Good article from Hirose Takashi

 

 

What They're Covering Up at Fukushima

Hirose Takashi has written a whole shelf full of books, mostly on the nuclear power industry and the military-industrial complex. Probably his best known book is Nuclear Power Plants for Tokyo in which he took the logic of the nuke promoters to its logical conclusion: if you are so sure that they're safe, why not build them in the center of the city, instead of hundreds of miles away where you lose half the electricity in the wires?

 

He did the TV interview that is partly translated below somewhat against his present impulses. I talked to him on the telephone today (March 22 , 2011) and he told me that while it made sense to oppose nuclear power back then, now that the disaster has begun he would just as soon remain silent, but the lies they are telling on the radio and TV are so gross that he cannot remain silent.

 

I’m speaking of the worst case, but the probability is not low. This is the danger that the world is watching. Only in Japan is it being hidden. As you know, of the six reactors at Daiichi, four are in a crisis state. So even if at one everything goes well and water circulation is restored, the other three could still go down. Four are in crisis, and for all four to be 100 per cent repaired, I hate to say it, but I am pessimistic. If so, then to save the people, we have to think about some way to reduce the radiation leakage to the lowest level possible. Not by spraying water from hoses, like sprinkling water on a desert. We have to think of all six going down, and the possibility of that happening is not low. Everyone knows how long it takes a typhoon to pass over Japan; it generally takes about a week. That is, with a wind speed of two meters per second, it could take about five days for all of Japan to be covered with radiation. We’re not talking about distances of 20 kilometers or 30 kilometers or 100 kilometers. It means of course Tokyo, Osaka. That’s how fast a radioactive cloud could spread. Of course it would depend on the weather; we can’t know in advance how the radiation would be distributed. It would be nice if the wind would blow toward the sea, but it doesn’t always do that. Two days ago, on the 15th, it was blowing toward Tokyo. That’s how it is. . . .

 

http://www.counterpunch.org/takashi03222011.html

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So, they have restored electricity to this (see below).

 

What will that do? Is anything still in working order in there? :unsure:

 

If steel-reinforced concrete was blown out, how is the electr(on)ics in there doing?

 

image-194926-galleryV9-uvbp.jpg

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Good that there is so few infants in Japan.

 

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-03-22/nuclear-plant-s-fuel-rods-damaged-leaking-into-sea-tokyo-electric-says.html

Tokyo to Distribute Bottled Water After Radiation Levels Climb

...

Tokyo authorities will distribute bottled water to families with infants after determining that tap water may be unsafe for babies following radiation leaks from a nuclear plant disabled by the March 11 earthquake.

 

The city will hand out 240,000 bottles to 80,000 families, a municipal official said at a televised briefing late yesterday. Radioactive iodine levels taken two days ago at a water treatment facility in Katsushika ward were double the recommended limit for babies.

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Now in Tokyo some residents have reported yellow rain. Authorities - whoever the hell they are - are saying it is "probably" pollen. Funny, that's what they said when yellow rain came down after Chernobyl. Kids went out and played in it. After a few months some folks had hair falling out and that was just the beginning. (source infowars - found it when this site was down)

It's genocide by a barrage of misinformation .....and it's taking place on a world stage.

 

Don't let your infants drink the water, but it's safe for you. Don't worry radiation levels are down; now up; it's safe but might explode. Has anyone explained that what people need to be worried about is ingesting or inhailing a radioactive particle? This isn't going to end despite the media downplaying the risks. I find myself checking daily for news of 100% evacuation of the F'plant which surely has to occur at some point. Yesterday some "expert" stated that in the event of a total meltdown only a 30km radius around the plant would be affected (yeah right), but given that he is on the other side of the world and not 31kms away it's easy for him to say. Noticably absent was what specifically he meant by "affected".

 

The only way to remove the particles from the water would be to distill it....which would take some kind of heat...which would need power....which would run the system into the ground if everyone were to attempt to distill their drinking water. Hmmmm, best not say anything then.

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@ Jake

 

If it's any consolation to you whilst the site has experienced problems your plight has been been in my concerns and would be good to hear that all is well, or at least, as well as can be expected.

 

Best wishes.

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Just to add, also thinking of you Jake.

 

But.... i also wanted to say that although the MSM has gone somewhat quiet on Fuku, i am watching... watching... because this is a ticking timebomb IMO.

Steam will not leak forever - when something boils dry we will have a fire and possibly melt-through of the corium, if that hasn't happened already.

 

Repair of anything that's left just got a whole lot harder with then finding highly radioactive water in the turbine halls of #1 and #3.

 

tick... tick...

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INES.jpg

 

Japan is on level 6 now. They apparently have stored spent nuclear fuel very close to the reactors too. Japan is a goner. No 2 ways about it. Jake, I hope you are fine. Though I have no idea of the ground realities, may be you should consider getting out.

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Japanese industry has a lot of interests, production capacity outside of Japan. Like the Honda and Nissan plants in the UK, the Nikon factory in Thailand . . . many others.

 

Is it reasonable to suggest that these and other Japanese firms will expand production outside Japan?

 

+ Nuclear power issues, not just Fukushima contamination but the future of domestic energy security in Japan.

+ Geological stability and future severe earthquakes and tsunami.

+ Demographics and their aging population, lack of a younger workforce.

+ Yen strength and internal government debt.

 

I've heard the Japanese have invested heavily in the likes of Vietnam and Cambodia. Will this continue, or will it cease and everything be pulled back to Japan?

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Underling, Chris, D2, All,

Thanks for your concern. We are still here, a little over 1000km from Fukushima as the crow flies, with seasonal prevailing winds taking this problem to US West coast and beyond before coming to Kyushu. I note what Hiose Takashi says but typhoons don't run north to south either. I may be being a bit complacent here but I think-I hope-I am not standing in line for a breath of bad air.

I am sure we must be looking at the worst case scenario and that means supposing the core is broken and all the spent fuel rods are scattered like broken eggs.

 

OK Lets say this is so and let's forget the economic problems (for now) that might ensue if the northern part of Japan including Tokyo and her 30 mill pop is going to find out the hard way the lies and spin of the gov and Tepco. Am I, at 1000km south west, facing a direct threat of nuclear fallout/radiation? If no, then should I still consider getting out of Japan? (economic/other reasons). I am ready to go-if need be. All my family passports and paperwork are ready and emergency bag is packed. If need be I can catch a boat to Korea and onward from there.

 

On the ground here, things look eerily as normal as ever. Petrol, heating oil, bread, rice still in the shops. Bottled WATER is sold out which is the most worrying sign, as people panic buy and send to family in Tokyo. But we here are fine for water. And there is no problem with the tap water anyway.

 

D2 when you say Japan is a 'goner', do you mean Fukushima/Tokyo/possible Northern Honshu (the big island) or do you mean a goner in Toto because of the larger economic ramifications?

 

There's a lot of 'pretend' on the TV and happy stories for diversion from the horrors in Fukushima, particularly the new radioactive puddles in the reactor basements-but all eyes are watching the kamikaze wind carry this shit out to the Pacific...for the time being.

 

So basically I am ready to depart if need be but at present I am just trying to continue my life with a lot of regular internet monitoring of the usual suspects...nice to see GEI (and you lot) back up and running. I was feeling a little cut off for a time there. :) we're a community of sorts, I've come to realize.

 

Best to everyone and keep the info coming.

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... Am I, at 1000km south west, facing a direct threat of nuclear fallout/radiation? If no, then should I still consider getting out of Japan? (economic/other reasons). I am ready to go-if need be. ...

The good thing is that you are ready to leave if you needed to. Will it become necessary because of radiation? I somewhat doubt it. When Chernobyl happened, the cloud blew towards Germany and Scandinavia, parts of Germany some 1,000km-1,500km away. There were no evacuations. People would stop eating mushrooms for a while, and also nuts from Turkey. You'd avoid rain the first few days. The ghost train of contaminated milk powder was a problem for a while. With the wind as it is, you might be almost unaffected in the end, except for having to watch what you're eating. In the worst case, from what we can see so far, you'd possibly have 1-2 Chernobyls blowing your way. But I am clearly no expert. It seems no one wants to give a prognosis right now. If a really bad blowout hasn't happend so far, how much of a chance is there that it will still take a turn for the (much) worse?

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I note what Hiose Takashi says but typhoons don't run north to south either.

 

Hi Jake,

 

You are absolutely right in the fact that North - South cyclones they don't happen often, but it's not so much the direction of travel of the storm, it's the direction of travel of the winds around the storm that are of issue. Anything passing off the east coast is going to bring a lot of north to south wind flow.

 

Still, a low possibility and something you will get plenty of warning about!

 

Glad you are well.

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The good thing is that you are ready to leave if you needed to. Will it become necessary because of radiation? I somewhat doubt it. When Chernobyl happened, the cloud blew towards Germany and Scandinavia, parts of Germany some 1,000km-1,500km away. There were no evacuations. People would stop eating mushrooms for a while, and also nuts from Turkey. You'd avoid rain the first few days. The ghost train of contaminated milk powder was a problem for a while. With the wind as it is, you might be almost unaffected in the end, except for having to watch what you're eating. In the worst case, from what we can see so far, you'd possibly have 1-2 Chernobyls blowing your way. But I am clearly no expert. It seems no one wants to give a prognosis right now. If a really bad blowout hasn't happend so far, how much of a chance is there that it will still take a turn for the (much) worse?

Thanks GF. I look at the prevailing winds for guidance here. As the weather warms up the seasonal prevailing winds push from the Pacific across the body of Honshu (mainland Japan) and over to the Japan sea coast. ie the opposite of what is occuring now. They need to control or bury Fukushima before that happens and part of me believes they are letting this situation of leaking radioactivity occur with these winds in mind, allowing the worst to blow over the Pacific. It really has been a case of Kamikaze-divine winds which have saved Japan a few times before (from Mongol invasion for example).

Still I transplant the map of Chernobyl and Ukraine/Europe over the Japanese archipelago and the worst would be areas as far south as Osaka and north to Hokkaido as most affected.

 

As you imply it is not the radioactivity which could affect me most in this worst case. It would be the sudden influx of most of the population to Kyushu and the pressures that would force economically. Japan, under those circumstances ,would be awasteland and a write off, including Tokyo, Yokohama, Kawasaki, Nagoya, Osaka etc etc ie the populated areas. Industry would be shattered and Japan would cease to be Japan as we know it. Even now the economic impact hasn't really been calculated with the loss of factories and industry. A little bird told me that Ajinomoto (like Heinz) has been nailed and the products you see now in the shops will not be there shortly. Bouillon, soups,stocks, sauces, instant foods etc...I stocked up. But then there is all the silicon chip makers and battery stuff, hi tech etc etc...

 

So it is the resultant economic impact that could be a problem and the demands on food and necessities is my major concern. We all know Japan was pretty much hobbled before the tsunami, financially. Now are we in for a bout of inflation/hyper variety and thus a total collapse? I read after Kobe quake Japan had a debt to gdp of 52%. Now we are running at 225%. Nobody here really realizes that. Yen strenthening as funds are repatriated will clobber any exports further.

 

I am struggling to find how any inflation would signal a Kondratieff Spring under Japans circumstnces. I feel it has to get a lot worse before we see that. Maybe we collapse first. It would be nice to hear Catflap's take on this.

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Hi Jake,

 

You are absolutely right in the fact that North - South cyclones they don't happen often, but it's not so much the direction of travel of the storm, it's the direction of travel of the winds around the storm that are of issue. Anything passing off the east coast is going to bring a lot of north to south wind flow.

 

Still, a low possibility and something you will get plenty of warning about!

 

Glad you are well.

Hi Syl, I don't see the north to south wind flow problem even under typhoon conditions...at least not this far. I am in west Kyushu.

Still another earthquake further south, tsunami, etc etc could happen, god forbid. Plenty of nuclear power stations pretty much everywhere in Japan.

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A suspected break in the core of a nuclear reactor could have been responsible for a leak of large amounts of radioactive contamination at the Fukushima Daiichi power plant, Japanese nuclear safety officials said on Friday, in another setback to efforts to avert disaster at the stricken facility.

 

In the latest developments, officials have said seawater outside one of the units has registered 1,250 the normal level of radiation, while efforts are under way to pump radioactive water that has pooled around the reactor turbines into safe storage. The BBC has reported that short-term radioactive iodine has been detected at very high levels in the Pacific Ocean near the plant.

 

US naval barges have started rushing in supplies of fresh water amid concerns the seawater being used to cool down the reactors might be causing corrosion.

 

The Japanese prime minister, Naoto Kan, described the situation at the plant as "very serious", while media reports said that two men who were injured while working on the plant's No.3 reactor on Thursday may have suffered internal exposure to radiation.

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/mar/25/japan-disaster-fukushima-plant-nuclear

 

Better article here:

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/asia-pacific/2011/03/201132643443813775.html

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BBC News 24 now reporting that the radiation levels in the sea have increased to 1800 times safe limits from 1250 yesterday. Up by a third in 24 hours!!!

 

Or more like up by half since yesterday before some smart arse corrects me!

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Japan workers pulled out of reactor, as radiation soars

 

Reports from Japan say radioactivity in water at reactor 2 at the damaged Fukushima nuclear plant is 10 million times the usual level. Workers trying to cool the reactor core to avoid a meltdown have been evacuated, Reuters news agency says. Earlier, Japan's nuclear agency that levels of radioactive iodine in the sea near the plant have risen to 1,850 times the usual level.

 

The UN's nuclear agency has warned the crisis could go on for months

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12872707

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Hi Jake,

 

I have a quick off-topic question for you. I assume that most of us own physical PM's, mine are in my posession. Jake, are there any logistical problems with moving your physical PM's to Korea with you, in the hopefully unlikely event that you have to leave Japan or are your PM's held by a third party custodian?

 

Regards,

 

JL

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The UN's nuclear agency has warned the crisis could go on for months

That seems to be unfolding, yes. And this is very bad for the economy, even if no major eruptions/widespread contaminations happen. Just the uncertainty.

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D2 when you say Japan is a 'goner', do you mean Fukushima/Tokyo/possible Northern Honshu (the big island) or do you mean a goner in Toto because of the larger economic ramifications?

 

Glad to know you are all set to leave when the time comes. This is how I interpret the situation.

 

Lets use Chernobyl as an example. The core meltdown happened but no concrete information was coming out for many months until it was too late. The damage lead to about 100000 miles of land to be wasted away, Its still unusable. Lots of people are still suffering the consequences.

 

Now in Japan, there is about 24 times as much spent fuel as there was in Chernobyl. The misinformation from govt sources looks like they are trying to cover up something a lot sinister. If Japan was to loose 100000 miles of land, what a huge loss it would cause. Besides you can watch the wind direction etc from government websites, but can it be doctored? Yes I think so, they can show it is all moving into pacific. I call that BS.

 

I personally do not think Japan as a whole has not got much time. If such an accident was to happen in the UK, I am leaving on the first flight out.

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Glad to know you are all set to leave when the time comes. This is how I interpret the situation.

 

Lets use Chernobyl as an example. The core meltdown happened but no concrete information was coming out for many months until it was too late. The damage lead to about 100000 miles of land to be wasted away, Its still unusable. Lots of people are still suffering the consequences.

 

Now in Japan, there is about 24 times as much spent fuel as there was in Chernobyl. The misinformation from govt sources looks like they are trying to cover up something a lot sinister. If Japan was to loose 100000 miles of land, what a huge loss it would cause. Besides you can watch the wind direction etc from government websites, but can it be doctored? Yes I think so, they can show it is all moving into pacific. I call that BS.

 

I personally do not think Japan as a whole has not got much time. If such an accident was to happen in the UK, I am leaving on the first flight out.

 

And to think the Thai's want a nuke station. :ph34r: Terrifying if you know anything about this culture.

 

Yes, something like 23% of Belarus was rendered uninhabitable after Chernobyl. 60% of the fallout landed in Belarus, mostly in the Red Forest.

 

This looks like Chernobyl in slow motion, it just hasn't had the distributive effect of a large high temperature sudden release. I wonder if foam concrete mixed with lead and boron might be the best bet thus immobilizing and preventing release and absorbing neutrons at the same time.

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