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G0ldfinger

Fukushima I: four reactors in trouble.

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HERE's A COMMENT that I posted there:

Kim,

Your wonderful interviews are attracting a Global audience. I am based in Hong Kong, and my GEI forum has over 4,000 members who are mostly in the UK. But many others are in places like New Zealand and Japan.

 

I have mentioned your excellent interviews with Lyn and described then as “Must Listen” material.

Please continue to favor us all with your generous contributions to global understanding.

 

Hey hey! I didn't know you were into RV. News just in

 

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Main grid electrical power is now present at reactor site. Things could be looking much better sooner rather than later. Latest pictures of site seem to show clean air

 

aa4bb308-4301-46cb-82ce-5db03adea5a8_500.jpg

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So they turn on 2 and hey presto it works sort of........and soon it works normally and has the power to cool all the other reactors in a shut down state and their pools.

 

So a bit of plumbing and it will be no worries by midweek!

 

:)

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So they turn on 2 and hey presto it works sort of........and soon it works normally and has the power to cool all the other reactors in a shut down state and their pools.

 

So a bit of plumbing and it will be no worries by midweek!

 

:)

good luck when YOU do the plumbing. don't forget to wear your lead underpants.

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Here's more from the IRSN : http://www.irsn.fr/FR/Actualites_presse/Actualites/Documents/IRSN_Seisme-Japon_Point-situation-18032011-14h.pdf

 

Translated to my best, I hope you can make some sense out of it. (I'm not sure what some sentences were actually meant to say in the original version as they were a bit twisted!)

 

 

Situation of nuclear reactors in Japan following the major earthquake that occurred March 11, 2011

 

Status report of 18 March 2011 to 14 hours

 

Central Fukushima I (Daiichi)

 

Since the previous information point on March 17, 2011 at 15:00 on the situation in central Fukushima Daiichi, information obtained by IRSN's technical crisis center was able to establish the following.

 

State pools

 

The quantities of fuel assemblies present in reactor pools 1-4 are confirmed (respectively 292, 587, 514 and 1500 rods). The associated residual powers were communicated by TEPCO. On this basis, the IRSN has reassessed the time before the beginning of the assemblies being uncovered.

The Power Reactor No. 2 could be restored in the afternoon. Unit 1 could be re-powered from the electric grid's common slice 1 and slice 2. IRSN suspects pools 1 and 3 are leaking.

 

Reactor pool No. 1

 

The power left to be removed is very small (0.07 MW). A drop in water level is supposed to be due to a leak from the pool. The use of jet water trucks seems to be planned.

 

Pool reactor No. 2

 

The pool is boiling. The use of jet water trucks seems to be planned, despite the integrity of the upper cladding of the building.

 

Pool of reactor No. 3

The first boiling was stopped by the drop of extra water by helicopters and jet water trucks. The IRSN has no information on the effectiveness of watering by water cannons.

IRSN believes that the slab missile located vertically above the vessel and the containment (see Annex 1) has been destroyed by the hydrogen explosion of the 14th of March 2011. If the structures that support this slab were also affected, it is conceivable that the possible maximum water level above the fuel assemblies stored in the pool would be reduced (in the worst cases: 1 meter above the top of the assemblies). This would explain the very high [radiation?] dose rates to the right of the building.

 

Pool reactor No. 4

The pool seems to be boiling, a steam plume is visible on top of the engine. Without effective backup, the assemblies could become uncovered from March 21. The use of jet water trucks appears to be planned.

 

Reactor pool # 5

 

The temperature of the water of this pool is stabilized. The water level is controlled.

 

Reactor pool No. 6

The temperature of the water of this pool is stabilized. The water level is controlled.

 

Cooling pool common site

This pool would contain about 6500 assemblies. Although the unit power generated by them is significantly lower than that generated assemblages present in reactor pools, they should nevertheless also be cooled.

 

The IRSN has no information on the status of this pool and could not make estimation of time before the assemblies would get uncovered.

 

Reactor States

 

IRSN is concerned about the amount of crystallized salt following the injection of seawater into the tanks of the reactors. It is common practice to rebuild reserves of fresh water on the site.

 

Reactor No. 1

According to the operator, 70% of the reactor heart is damaged. The injection of seawater in the tank appears to be maintained to ensure the cooling of the heart that remains partially dewatered. The water in the tank is discharged into the containment via a valve.

The containment integrity is maintained. There is probably no more depressurization operations of the containment occurring. Therefore, no additional direct release of radioactive products into the atmosphere should occur.

The upper part of the reactor building was blown by an explosion. The control room is very radioactive, limiting the time spent by the operators.

 

Reactor No. 2

According to the operator, 33% of the heart is damaged reactor. The injection of seawater in the tank appears to be maintained to ensure the cooling of the heart that is now under water.

The containment building is damaged, however it does not appear that the seal integrity is to be questioned (the pressure inside the building is fluctuating). There is probably no more depressurization operations of the containment occurring. Therefore, no additional direct release of radioactive products into the atmosphere should occur.

The control room is very radioactive, limiting the time spent by the operators.

 

Reactor No. 3

The heart of the reactor is partially damaged. TThe injection of seawater in the tank appears to be maintained to ensure the cooling of the heart that remains partially dewatered. The steam produced in the fuel tank from contact with the combustible seems to evacuate in the containment building, which appears to remain tight. There is probably no more depressurization operations of the containment occurring. Therefore, no additional direct release of radioactive products into the atmosphere should occur.

The upper part of the reactor building was blown by an explosion. The control room is very radioactive, limiting the time spent by the operators.

 

Reactor No. 4

The upper part of the building is damaged. The control room is very radioactive, limiting the time spent by the operators.

 

Reactor No. 5 and 6

The heart of each of these reactors is fully loaded in fuel assemblies. An injection of water in these tanks is scheduled for today Friday, March 18.

 

Central Fukushima II (DOE)

Reactor No. 1, 2, 3, 4

On this site, reactors 1, 2, 3 and 4 have reached normal stopping conditions (called "cold shutdown"). No degradation of fuel has taken place on these reactors.

 

Central Onagawa and Tokai

There is no specific item to report

 

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Here's more from the IRSN : http://www.irsn.fr/FR/Actualites_presse/Actualites/Documents/IRSN_Seisme-Japon_Point-situation-18032011-14h.pdf

 

Translated to my best, I hope you can make some sense out of it. (I'm not sure what some sentences were actually meant to say in the original version as they were a bit twisted!)

WOW, Aak is going to get all that lot in to a 'no worries' state in 5 or 6 days. the mans like a GOD.

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Here's more from the IRSN : http://www.irsn.fr/FR/Actualites_presse/Actualites/Documents/IRSN_Seisme-Japon_Point-situation-18032011-14h.pdf

 

Translated to my best, I hope you can make some sense out of it. (I'm not sure what some sentences were actually meant to say in the original version as they were a bit twisted!)

 

Thanks for this.

 

Translations:

 

1. There is an existing common power connection that is intact between 1 and 2. By connecting 2 they have power to 1.

 

2. Suspect the anti-missile concrete slab has been destroyed and if the support structure are damaged the fuel in the cooling pool could be exposed 1 m and this might explain the high radiation levels to the right of the building

 

Edit: I looked at the french for number 2 and it was beyond me to understand the meaning but it is something like that.

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Thanks for this.

 

Translations:

 

1. There is an existing common power connection that is intact between 1 and 2. By connecting 2 they have power to 1.

 

2. slab missile, seems to be a support structure that is missing so that the cooling pool above the containment vessel cannot be filled to the correct level for fear of the pool coming down on to the containment vessel??

 

Edit: I looked at the french for number 2 and it was beyond me to understand the meaning.

i guess missile slab is somewhere they put the rods before moving them. i.e. launch pad

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WOW, Aak is going to get all that lot in to a 'no worries' state in 5 or 6 days. the mans like a GOD.

 

The reactors are already being cooled with sea water which might mean the discharge is to the sea or they might have a large pool to discharge in already which is boiling off and concentrating the sea salt. Getting them to be cooled with the fully operational 2 with circulating filtered and processed 'fresh' water would be fairly simple if the plumbing can be done using mainly existing good pipes.

 

The cooling ponds only require to be topped up with water to be fairly safe and if very hot water can be returned to the cooler on 2 they will be safer. One pond seems very damaged perhaps.

 

I commented somewhat tongue in cheek since i noticed people watching and yet saying nothing.

 

Even so things are looking considerably better i think.

 

A big problem they have had up till now is that the reactor pumps require megawatts of power. If they have the megawatts they can bring in new megawatt pumps and operate them externally if there are accessable pipes to connect to.

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The reactors are already being cooled with sea water which might mean the discharge is to the sea or they might have a large pool to discharge in already. Getting them to be cooled with the fully operational 2 with circulating filtered and processed water would be fairly simple if the plumbing can be done using mainly existing good pipes.

 

The cooling ponds only require to be topped up with water to be fairly safe and if very hot water can be returned to the cooler on 2 they will be safer.

 

I was somewhat tongue in cheek since i noticed people watching and yet saying nothing.

 

Even so things are looking considerably better i think.

what are you calling 'fully operational 2'?

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what are you calling 'fully operational 2'?

 

The shut down reactor number 2 has pipes to circulate the same water as steam to the turbines and thru the sea water condensor back to the reactor and this system has a suppression pool to contain over pressure. The nature of a reactor is that the water gets toxic and has to be cleaned to be safe for the workers so those facilities are there somewhere on this site and could work

 

'Fully operation 2' is the water circulation cooling and cleaning function of number 2

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The shut down reactor number 2 has pipes to circulate the same water as steam to the turbines and thru the sea water condensor back to the reactor and this system has a suppression pool to contain over pressure. The nature of a reactor is that the water gets toxic and has to be cleaned to be safe for the workers so those facilities are there somewhere on this site and could work

 

'Fully operation 2' is the water circulation cooling and cleaning function of number 2

how do you know all that stuff is present and working?

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The shut down reactor number 2 has pipes to circulate the same water as steam to the turbines and thru the sea water condensor back to the reactor and this system has a suppression pool to contain over pressure. The nature of a reactor is that the water gets toxic and has to be cleaned to be safe for the workers so those facilities are there somewhere on this site and could work

 

'Fully operation 2' is the water circulation cooling and cleaning function of number 2

do you know how much electrical power them circulation pumps need?

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Will there be a nuclear industry in the future in Germany? And what about Japan?

 

Japan crisis: Germany to speed up nuclear energy exit

 

The German chancellor said it was impossible to return to 'business as usual'

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-12769810

Funny, none of the risks associated with nuclear power have changed.....here in NZ suddenly we are being

bombarded with messages about preparation for tsunamis and earthquakes. Our country is similar in it's

techtonic vunerability to Japan so earthquakes aren't uncommon.

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do you know how much electrical power them circulation pumps need?

 

They need megawatts of power as i said before even when the reactor is not critical.

 

We dont know anything is working but building 2 seem mainly undamaged which is why they are going in there first.

 

5 and 6 are now powered up via a generator where temperatures were rising but possibly with power the cooling system will sort that out.

 

It could be that fairly soon we might be looking at only one major problem rather than almost too many to handle

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They need megawatts of power as i said before even when the reactor is not critical.

 

We dont know anything is working but building 2 seem mainly undamaged which is why they are going in there first.

 

5 and 6 are now powered up via a generator where temperatures were rising but possibly with power the cooling system will sort that out.

 

It could be that fairly soon we might be looking at only one major problem rather than almost too many to handle

megawatts!!! do they make electrical pumps that big?

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The shut down reactor number 2 has pipes to circulate the same water as steam to the turbines and thru the sea water condensor back to the reactor and this system has a suppression pool to contain over pressure. The nature of a reactor is that the water gets toxic and has to be cleaned to be safe for the workers so those facilities are there somewhere on this site and could work

 

'Fully operation 2' is the water circulation cooling and cleaning function of number 2

WHat water cleaning capability do they have?

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Thanks for this.

 

Translations:

 

1. There is an existing common power connection that is intact between 1 and 2. By connecting 2 they have power to 1.

 

2. Suspect the anti-missile concrete slab has been destroyed and if the support structure are damaged the fuel in the cooling pool could be exposed 1 m and this might explain the high radiation levels to the right of the building

 

Edit: I looked at the french for number 2 and it was beyond me to understand the meaning but it is something like that.

 

1. is one of those I had no idea about... They are talking about "tranche" which is literally translated as "slice". It doesn't seem like it's referring to reactors, but rather like subsections of the (mains, external) electrical grid. Your guess as to what it means is probably better than mine, but that sounds like some technical term about power grid structures...

 

2. Not quite. Let me rephrase it. There's (was) apparently an anti missile protection slab on top of the compound, which is above the pools. They reckoned it's been damaged by the hydrogen explosion, and in the process, that has damaged the structural compounds that supports it. That, in turn, could mean that that the pool will not be able to fill as much as before: it has lost capacity to fill so that the fuel rods can only be one meter deep under water. Said otherwise, they think the top of the pool has been damaged after the explosion, so it can't be refilled as high as it was designed to originally. Obviously, the final word is the same as yours : less cooling, less shielding... More (risk of) radiation. I don't know how much water was supposed to be over the rods according to the original design of the pools.

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While we can only wonder WTF is going on and what condition the Fukushima reactors are in, here is the link to the radiation mapping translated from German. This map was first posted by-I am sorry I forget- but it indicates the level of dangerous radiation has not abated one iota from the beginning of the damage-shown in red. It also now shows a mass of radiation out in the pacific blowing back onto southern Japan and maybe to Korea, China, Taiwan possibly...

 

Please take a look and if someone would post it here I would be grateful. It really needs to be pinned. I think it is the most useful indicator and reporter of this incident. I may well be packing my bags.

 

You have to click the update on the left for march 18. By scrolling down you can see it on the world map too with little blue bits floating towards US West coast.

 

 

 

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.zamg.ac.at%2Faktuell%2Findex.php%3Fseite%3D1%26artikel%3DZAMG_2011-03-15GMT08%3A26

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WHat water cleaning capability do they have?

 

In theory the cooling water only gets a short life irradiation but in reality some of those fuel cans burst and become part of the cooling water. So that has to be filtered and cleaned up or new water has to be added and contaminated water continually drained and sent for processing so it does not concentrate. I dont know how they do it.

 

Apparently the pumps are already damaged by sea water.

 

Running the pumps with the reactors full of damaged fuel will also be problematic.

 

But the issue here is to be able to keep the reactors cooled for a few years so you dont have to open them up and remove the fuel in a damaged highly radioactive installation where you want all of the material to remain inside with no pressure releases if possible.

 

If they could get everything colder they would have a tremendous step forwards than where they are now.

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While we can only wonder WTF is going on and what condition the Fukushima reactors are in, here is the link to the radiation mapping translated from German. This map was first posted by-I am sorry I forget- but it indicates the level of dangerous radiation has not abated one iota from the beginning of the damage-shown in red. It also now shows a mass of radiation out in the pacific blowing back onto southern Japan and maybe to Korea, China, Taiwan possibly...

 

Please take a look and if someone would post it here I would be grateful. It really needs to be pinned. I think it is the most useful indicator and reporter of this incident. I may well be packing my bags.

 

You have to click the update on the left for march 18. By scrolling down you can see it on the world map too with little blue bits floating towards US West coast.

 

 

 

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.zamg.ac.at%2Faktuell%2Findex.php%3Fseite%3D1%26artikel%3DZAMG_2011-03-15GMT08%3A26

 

This is though a theoretical construction of what might be possible based on what will be a lot of guesses.

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This is though a theoretical construction of what might be possible based on what will be a lot of guesses.

Yes and it is a damn sight better than your longwinded diatribes, excuse me. :o

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