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UK proposes pay all wages to government first

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Here in NZ there is a proposal to do away with tax refunds. It is expected not to make it through Parliment pundits say.

 

Still, it was a very disturbing piece of news....but not as severe as this doozy from the UK:

 

http://www.cnbc.com/id/39265847

 

UK Proposes All Paychecks Go to the State First

Published: Monday, 20 Sep 2010 | 7:57 AM ET

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By: Robin Knight

CNBC Associate Web Producer

 

The UK's tax collection agency is putting forth a proposal that all employers send employee paychecks to the government, after which the government would deduct what it deems as the appropriate tax and pay the employees by bank transfer.

 

Big Ben & London Eye

Sharon Lorimer

The proposal by Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs (HMRC) stresses the need for employers to provide real-time information to the government so that it can monitor all payments and make a better assessment of whether the correct tax is being paid.

 

Currently employers withhold tax and pay the government, providing information at the end of the year, a system know as Pay as You Earn (PAYE). There is no option for those employees to refuse withholding and individually file a tax return at the end of the year.

 

If the real-time information plan works, it further proposes that employers hand over employee salaries to the government first.

 

"The next step could be to use (real-time) information as the basis for centralizing the calculation and deduction of tax," HMRC said in a July discussion paper.

 

HMRC described the plan as "radical" as it would be a huge change from the current system that has been largely unchanged for 66 years.

 

Even though the centralized deductions proposal would provide much-needed oversight, there are some major concerns, George Bull, head of Tax at Baker Tilly, told CNBC.com.

 

"If HMRC has direct access to employees' bank accounts and makes a mistake, people are going to feel very exposed and vulnerable," Bull said.

 

And the chance of widespread mistakes could be high, according to Bull. HMRC does not have a good track record of handling large computer systems and has suffered high-profile errors with data, he said.

 

The system would be massive in terms of data management, larger than a recent attempt to centralize the National Health Service's data, which was later scrapped, Bull said.

 

If there's a mistake and the HMRC collects too much money, the difficulty of getting it back could be high with repayments of tax taking weeks or months, he said.

 

"There has to be some very clear understanding of how quickly repayments were made if there was a mistake," Bull said.

 

HMRC estimated the potential savings to employers from the introduction of the concept would be about £500 million ($780 million).

 

But the cost of implementing the new system would be "phenomenal," Bull pointed out.

 

"It's very clear that the system does need to be modernized… It's outdated, it's outmoded," Emma Boon, campaigner manager at the Tax Payers' Alliance, told CNBC.com.

 

Boon said that the Tax Payers' Alliance was in favor of simplifying tax collection, but stressed that a new complex computer system would add infrastructure and administration costs at a time when the government is trying to reduce spending.

 

There is a further concern, according to Bull. The centralized storage of so much data poises a security risk as the system may be open to cyber crime.

 

As well as security issues, there's a huge issue of transparency, according to Boon.

 

Boon also questioned HMCR's ability to handle to the role effectively.

 

The Institute of Directors (IoD), a UK organization created to promote the business agenda of directors and entreprenuers, said in a press release it had major concerns about the proposal to allow employees' pay to be paid directly to HMRC.

 

The IoD said the shift to a real-time, centralized system could be positive as long as the burden on employers was not increased. But it added that the idea of wages being processed by HMRC was "completely unacceptable."

 

“This document contains a lot of good ideas. But the idea that HMRC should be trusted with the gross pay of employees is not one of them," Richard Baron, Head of Taxation at the IoD, said in the release.

 

A spokesperson for Chancellor of the Exchequer George Osborne was not immediately available for comment.

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Total control of the money - this might suit fringe better.

 

Hi TB,

 

when Fringe starts going mainstream......... makes you wonder what other things we have been warning about might/will come true, doesn't it. ;)

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Here in NZ there is a proposal to do away with tax refunds. It is expected not to make it through Parliment pundits say.

 

Still, it was a very disturbing piece of news....but not as severe as this doozy from the UK:

Would that mean filling out tax returns at the end of the year would no longer be compulsory. I'm all for that! And not having to vote. :lol:

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Would that mean filling out tax returns at the end of the year would no longer be compulsory. I'm all for that! And not having to vote. :lol:

[self Assessment] Tax returns will remain unchanged.

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Consultation period for this legislation ends today. An interesting take on why the government would want to do this, and how the BBC is selling it to the public.

 

It would be good to hear opinions about the advantages/disadvantages of this system. As per PrisonPlanet theme, their argument is clear. But is the NWO (if they exist - after all, this isn't the fringe section...) really who we should be most worried about? I suspect it best to be most fearful of ourselves and the growing apathy of the masses.

 

http://www.prisonplanet.com/why-the-govern...n-movement.html

Why the government wants to control your paycheck – an attack on the Sovereign movement

 

*

The Alex Jones Channel Alex Jones Show podcast Prison Planet TV Infowars.com Twitter Alex Jones' Facebook Infowars store

 

Colin

WeAreChange.ie

Sept 24, 2010

 

This week in the UK a proposal is being discussed by the Inland Revenue to take away control of your weekly or monthly pay from your employers and put it into their hands. The idea is that your employer will make deductions for union fees and pensions and the like, and then the money is paid to the Revenue who will deduct everyone’s tax as they see fit. Finally the Revenue will then pay the balance into your bank account. It is in a consultation period at the moment which ends today, after which they will beWhy the government wants to control your paycheck – an attack on the Sovereign movement trans making revised proposals to the government to introduce legislation.

 

Why the government wants to control your paycheck – an attack on the Sovereign movement THE BOYOS 200x150Most people would balk at the idea of the government coming anywhere near their private income but the BBC have been selling the story as if it is a fabulous idea that nobody should have any problems with. The way they will spin the idea is that it will save money for companies in accounting and will eliminate the duplication of work between accounts departments in companies and the revenue and the eventual balancing act that occurs. Perhaps there might be a saving overall, there is logic in that, but this is not why they want their hands in your pockets.

 

That is the question they will not push on the BBC, i.e. why exactly do the government want so desperately to take control of your money and to have access to your bank accounts? This seems quite openly now to be the next big step in the steady construction of the Big Brother state. A state that already sports CCTV cameras everywhere, even in homes, spying on your telecoms and emails, and a campaign of “report on your neighbours” that is disintegrating society.

 

David Cameron and Nick Clegg campaigned in the election to deconstruct this surveillance system that they blamed the Labour government for constructing, yet, as with every administration in the so called free world, they seem to be doing the complete reverse of what they promised before they were elected and are building upon what has been left to them.

=

=

 

What is the motivation for this though and why now? Well in this writers opinion what we are seeing here is a massive gamble by the government in reaction to the growing understanding amongst the awakened members of the public to the corruption of the system. To be more specific, there has been a huge awakening over the last two or three years to the fact that government is not in fact representing the men and women in the country, but is working for a corporate elite and managing a system of law that is solely commercial in nature.

 

The Common Law we thought we were living under has been replaced by Commercial or Admiralty Law of the Sea, and is implemented through Statutes and Acts that have no jurisdiction over flesh and blood men and women or above Common Law. These statutes and acts are all contracts and can therefore only be acted upon us with our consent. this is the great fraud.

 

Remember every if you look in the companies register you will find that the government is now a corporation, as well as every court, police force, council, utility, and even schools, prisons and all government departments including Revenue.. All operating for profit and generating revenue. Hence the massive increase in legislation with monetary value attached to be extracted from us.

 

People who have discovered this and have researched remedies to it, have discovered how to beat the system. They have discovered that they can choose weather to operate in the public domain, using their legal fiction corporate entity, IE their NAME (all caps), which is registered to the government by your birth certificate and is owned by them and so can be acted upon by them, as it appears on any correspondence with government or utilities etc; or, alternatively people can choose not to use it but to operate in the private as themselves. In doing this they are not contracting commercially with the government system and therefore cannot be acted upon by the system.

 

How are these two linked? Well by not contracting with the system, people are able to avoid paying fines, taxes, bills etc issued by councils, utilities, courts, police, and revenue. Clearly the information has been spreading far and wide and is becoming a major worry that the scam might be realised by more and more people very quickly, and has forced the government into this kind of knee jerk reaction.

 

So by taking away control of your pay, the government will give themselves the power to deduct any amount of tax it deems correct. It may also raise tax at will without any possibility of taxation revolt. Furthermore they will have the ability to deduct from your pay any amount from any fines, council charges, court orders, debts, etc before you ever see your money in your account. All of the statutes, that are unenforceable on men and women without their consent, will be monetarily enforced before we even have the chance to lawfully do anything about it

 

This is how they are going to destroy the sovereign freeman movement which has discovered the corporate corruption that is masquerading as government in western nations. This will become a cashless society where everyone is a state employee in effect and you are dependent upon the state for money. Anyone who steps out of line or harbours opinions that differ from that of the state can then have their lives made very difficult indeed.

 

This is something that our elders fought against, that even our own crazies in our governments tell us was a terrible evil system when it was operated by Hitler or Stalin or Mau or in any other historical dictatorship. Yet here they are implementing it themselves in a new and improved version that is right out of Orwell’s 1984.

 

This is not going to be isolated to the UK. They are simply a testing ground to see how easily it can be implemented. Make no mistake, all other countries will follow suit, especially in europe. Undoubtedly Ireland will be the first to fall in line as usual as they are still in reality under Crown (City of London) rule.

 

This will force an even bigger sea change in the minds of the people who already understand the fake reality of the system we live in. It will force them to make UK irrelevant. To leave the Corporate UK lawfully and exist as a private man or woman on the land, as many already have. It will mean groups will arise who no longer recognise the jurisdiction of the government over the land and this is going to lead to major conflict with the corporate police state that is being built.

 

As has happened before during depressions down the centuries, groups or regions are going to start issuing their own money and barter so as to avoid joining the UK Corporate system. This has already started happening in some places as a way of keeping the money in a town or village by issuing town money to trade in local outlets only. This is happening worldwide now as the system starts to crumble.

 

The black market is going to grow exponentially and the number of people renouncing UK citizenship will likewise increase. This will accelerate the system towards failure. So communities need to get together now and plan for their removal from the overreaching and interference of the Corporate government. By doing this they will hasten the system’s demise and be better placed to prosper when it does.

 

In a way this kind of outlandish legislative intrusion into our private lives by big government who promised to reverse this trend will only serve to wake up millions more people to the lies as the veneer falls from the tyranny of a government owned by and run for the benefit of an elite group of banking families.

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It sounds a fantastic system to help us developing cutting edge big brother technologies. Surely a source of export earning in the future.

 

I expect there wont be enough qualified people to implement it here, so lets forget about that immigration cap too.

 

But if I put my staff on self employed contract and pay cash then this wont be my problem.

 

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an absolutely outrageous idea

 

Although keeping it secure will be almost impossible. The most realistic option is to site the hardware in castle in the sky at the end of the rainbox.

 

Keeping it accurate will also be difficult. They might use unicorns to verify the data.

 

I doubt there is enough money to do it.

 

 

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Although keeping it secure will be almost impossible. The most realistic option is to site the hardware in castle in the sky at the end of the rainbox.

 

Keeping it accurate will also be difficult. They might use unicorns to verify the data.

 

I doubt there is enough money to do it.

 

Not sure why there wouldn't be enough money?

 

The most troubling aspect IMHO is the level of control they will have over the majority of people who work "real" jobs as opposed to business folks. Imagine these people are holding on to your money that you need to survive (statistically majority live paycheck to paycheck). The next move is that you can't get access to that money unless you agree to [insert draconian measure that removes basic liberty/privacy/right to choose x here] because the government is concerned about [terrorist threat/the 'flu/ social unrest/ etc]. Of course you don't have to agree. You won't get paid...but that is YOUR choice.

 

Framing this invasion as a choice essentially removes accountability. Rebel while you can! Better yet, start your own business.

 

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Looks like it is going ahead...

 

 

A whole new IT system will be introduced to implement the Universal Credit, with PAYE data collected in real time so the Government can calculate what people are entitled to.

 

The move should make it easier to ensure people are always better off when they working, as well as reducing the scope for fraud and error - which currently costs billions of pounds a year.

 

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13...l#ixzz11KjvTjT9

 

nobs

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Not sure why there wouldn't be enough money?

 

To do it well will be hard and the nearest equivalent the hospital project failed spectacularly. Think of all the business using PAYE. All the people, all the different use-cases and ways of working that don't match the official version but are very effective. Now model these and build a real-time system to control them. Keep it secure. If you make any mistakes you can shut down a business. Where are the people who to run this?

 

 

Looks like it is going ahead...

 

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13...l#ixzz11KjvTjT9

 

nobs

 

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LOL nice pic ^

 

Just read in my Sovereign Man, notes from the field ezine, written by Simon Black....talk about a clampdown on tax avoidance. No, I don't mean evasion, I mean avoidance.

 

This is my favourite ezine btw, well written and well informed. It is also on his website here.

 

 

Big Brother is coming…

 

by Simon Black · 2 Comments

 

October 5, 2010

London, England

 

In its ongoing contest to outdo other countries in the global crackdown against productive citizens, British tax authorities recently unveiled their latest series of measures designed to prove one thing without a doubt:

 

Big brother is coming.

 

I should pause for a moment to clarify some important definitions: tax evasion is the willful nonpayment or underpayment of taxes owed through illicit means… usually through things like underreporting of income or hiding funds offshore. Tax evasion is illegal, simple.

 

Tax avoidance, on the other hand, is the legitimate arrangement of one’s financial affairs to legally minimize tax liabilities within the structure of the law.

 

Most nations’ tax codes are so Byzantine that they cause people to engage in completely ludicrous and insane acts in order to lower their tax liability. For example, people will deliberately take losses or purchase unnecessary products in order to reduce their overall tax burden.

 

Needless to say, these sorts of things cause drastic misallocations of capital, which is never good for the aggregate wealth of a society.

 

Recently, however, the British government has begun blurring the distinction between tax avoidance and tax evasion. Evasion, they say, may be illegal, but avoidance is just as bad. In either case, you’re “stealing” from your neighbors…

 

Apparently the British government expects its subjects to simply open their wallets without hesitation and let the politicians decide when the bleeding should stop… nevermind that many in the government, including the Treasury Chief Secretary, use legal means to reduce their own personal tax burdens.

 

This is where the new policies come in.

 

In one proposal being considered by the UK tax authorities, British employers would no longer pay their workers. Instead, they would send full paychecks to the government and let the bureaucrats sort it all out.

 

Once the tax authorities deduct the amount of tax that they feel is sufficient, they would eventually pass on the net paychecks to the workers’ bank accounts.

 

If anyone should call to complain, the tax agency will implement voice recognition software to automatically detect if a caller sounds nervous, or if s/he may be trying to mislead tax inspectors.

 

On top of that, for anyone trying to take subsequent deductions later in the year, Her Majesty’s tax police have already committed to increasing the number of audits by 3,000%, and possibly hooking people up to lie detectors.

 

It’s uncertain what the final picture of this insanity is going to look like– which measures will be dropped due to voter backlash, which will be publicly implemented, and which will be surreptitiously implemented. The proposals and rhetoric, however, certainly indicate what the politicians are thinking:

 

People who are productive will be continually squeezed until they are no longer productive; this means that if you are just a little bit better off than your neighbors, the politicians won’t rest until you are suffering equally. Naturally, though, they won’t be suffering themselves.

 

This line of reasoning will have disastrous effects on a society. Not only does it prevent the most productive people from creating value, building wealth, and providing new jobs, but it gives those who are already suffering very little incentive to pull themselves out of the hole.

 

It’s unfortunate when nations which were once the pinnacle of innovation and prosperity resort to such baneful and self-destructive tactics. These policies should serve as yet another reminder of what awaits, and underscore a clear point:

 

Nothing is permanent. A country on top will not remain on top forever. This applies to the west today, and will apply to Asia in the future.

 

Right now, the developed western world is in a substantial period of decline. It will likely remain there for decades to come. Other countries such as Brazil, Indonesia, Mozambique, and Panama will continue to experience a surge in economic output and standard of living.

 

We are fortunate to be living during a time in which we can witness this transition, as well as be able to capitalize on it… if we’re willing to take action.

 

Being born in a particular country should not enslave a person to go down with a sinking ship; we’re all human beings, and the entire world is our home. National borders are simply invisible lines on a map, and perhaps an inconvenient bureaucracy.

 

I’m not suggesting that you get out of dodge tomorrow… but if you look around where you live and see things getting worse, it is probably time to start considering unique options overseas. I think your wallet and your soul will thank you for it later.

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