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How Hyperinflation Happens - different animal than inflation

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Hyperinflation, Part II: What It Will Look Like

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/guest-pos...at-it-will-look

Amongst other things, he talks about hyperinflation in CHILE...

 

One of the effects of Chile’s hyperinflation was the collapse in asset prices.

 

This would seem counterintuitive. After all, if the prices of consumer goods and basic staples are rising in a hyperinflationary environment, then asset prices should rise as well—right? Equities should rise in price—since more money is chasing after the same number of stock. Real estate prices should rise also—and for the same reason. Right?

 

Actually, wrong—and for a simple reason: Once basic necessities are unmet, and remain unmet for a sustained period of time, any asset will be willingly and instantly sacrificed, in order to meet that basic need.

 

To put it in simple terms: If you were dying of thirst in the middle of the desert, would you give up your family heirloom diamonds, in exchange for a gallon of water? The answer is obvious—yes. You would sacrifice anything and everyting—instantly—in order to meet your basic needs, or those of your family.

 

So as the situation in Chile deteriorated in ’72 and into ’73, the stock market collapsed, the housing market collapsed—everything collapsed, as people either cashed out of their assets in order to buy basic goods and staples on the black market, or cashed out so as to leave the country altogether. No asset class was safe, from this sell-off—it was across-the-board, and total.

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Amongst other things, he talks about hyperinflation in CHILE...

 

One of the effects of Chile’s hyperinflation was the collapse in asset prices.

 

This would seem counterintuitive. After all, if the prices of consumer goods and basic staples are rising in a hyperinflationary environment, then asset prices should rise as well—right? Equities should rise in price—since more money is chasing after the same number of stock. Real estate prices should rise also—and for the same reason. Right?

 

Actually, wrong—and for a simple reason: Once basic necessities are unmet, and remain unmet for a sustained period of time, any asset will be willingly and instantly sacrificed, in order to meet that basic need.

 

To put it in simple terms: If you were dying of thirst in the middle of the desert, would you give up your family heirloom diamonds, in exchange for a gallon of water? The answer is obvious—yes. You would sacrifice anything and everyting—instantly—in order to meet your basic needs, or those of your family.

 

So as the situation in Chile deteriorated in ’72 and into ’73, the stock market collapsed, the housing market collapsed—everything collapsed, as people either cashed out of their assets in order to buy basic goods and staples on the black market, or cashed out so as to leave the country altogether. No asset class was safe, from this sell-off—it was across-the-board, and total.

 

from reading what he has said the Regime seized privately owned property and destroyed the economy while implementing price controls on food so that food was very cheap and was over bought and shortages arose and food was then allocated to local favourites. Coupled with endless money printing and no ability to govern.

 

And he says hyperinflation in American will not happen like this.

 

Incidently countries like NZ are having economic problems because some food prices are not rising and indeed have fallen significantly while simultaneously land prices rose in expectation of higher food prices. Even a modest amount of price inflation of these foods will turn this situation around. The NZ situation was partly caused by a mania to convert farms to the profitable modern dairy farm. Even so, all they need is a bit of inflation for a few years.

 

Even with Russian drought, fires and export bans, Wheat is still way below the peaks of the last few years.

 

Things looked much brighter for NZ back in April

 

http://www.greenenergyinvestors.com/index....st&p=161691

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from reading what he has said the Regime seized privately owned property and destroyed the economy while implementing price controls on food so that food was very cheap and was over bought and shortages arose and food was then allocated to local favourites. Coupled with endless money printing and no ability to govern.

 

And he says hyperinflation in American will not happen like this.

As I have reported before on GEI and elsewhere...

 

Even in Weimar Germany, property was a poor investment in hyperinflation versus "Essentials".

 

In Weimar times, rents went up only 1/100 th as much as Food did.

 

Thus, if rent cost 100 cans of beans at the start of the hyperinflation episode, at the end rents were

only 1 can of beans.

 

I suppose if you have fixed rate debt, you get some benefit from debt reduction, but you are likely to be far better off (in hyperinflationary times) with your money in precious metals, or even cans of beens that gearing up to buy property.

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As I have reported before on GEI and elsewhere...

 

Even in Weimar Germany, property was a poor investment in hyperinflation versus "Essentials".

 

In Weimar times, rents went up only 1/100 th as much as Food did.

 

Thus, if rent cost 100 cans of beans at the start of the hyperinflation episode, at the end rents were

only 1 can of beans.

 

I suppose if you have fixed rate debt, you get some benefit from debt reduction, but you are likely to be far better off (in hyperinflationary times) with your money in precious metals, or even cans of beens that gearing up to buy property.

 

I think you will find that in Weimar people buying things with debt did very well and became almost overnight quite wealthy and it was the lenders who were destroyed. 'Everybody was speculating' is the theme

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HAS THE FED ALREADY PRINT ENOUGH money to trigger Hyperinflation ?

 

This seems to be a key question - And Lira argues that it has printed enough:

 

His mechanism is that a selling Panic OUT OF BONDS by institutions will translate into a sharp rally in traded commodities, and then into the prices of essentials for Main Street - things like: gasoline and food. Here's how he puts it:

 

"But if the higher consumer prices continue—or become worse—what will happen to the 320 million American consumers? They’ll start buying more gas now, rather than wait around for tomorrow—and the market will react to this. How? Two way: Prices of commodities will rise even further—and asset prices will fall even lower.

 

Again, the man in the desert, the diamonds, and the water: If American consumers are getting hit at the gas station and the supermarket, they’ll start selling everything so as to buy gas, heating oil (most especially) and foodstuffs. The Treasury panic will thus be transfered to the average consumer—from Wall Street to Main Street by way of $15 a gallon gas prices, and $10 a gallon heating oil prices.

 

All other consumer prices would soon follow the leads of gas, heating oil and food."

 

Mish says: Phooey! That's like Shazaam!, a fantasized magical result.

 

And I do agree with Mish that some mechanism seems to be missing. Of course, if traded commodities do go up, like oil and copper and wheat did in 2008, then the prices of gasoline and food will go up too, perhaps not immediately, since prices will take time to work their way through the pipeline. In 2008, those prices rises helped to tank the global economy, and probably stocks too (although the stock crash was helped along by the big banking and credit crisis.)

 

The missing mechanism that would sustain an emerging rise in prices would be getting money into people's hands so that they will pay those higher prices for essentials. In 2008, many people drove less, and traded down in their food consumption.

 

Here's how Lira puts it:

"That last bit—palliative dollar-printing: That’s the key. When palliative dollar-printing happens, it will be the final stages of hyperinflation—it’s when sensible people ought to realize that the crisis is almost over, and that a new normal will soon appear. But this stage will be fucking awful.

 

Palliative dollar printing will take place when the Federal government simply runs out of options. Smart economists will get on CNBC and argue that, “The velocity of money is destroying the economy—we must expand the currency base!” It’ll sound logical, but palliative money-printing will be a policy option born out of panic. The final policy option. It won’t be done for evil conspiratorial reasons—always remember Aphorism #6 (“Never ascribe to malice what can be explained by incompetence.”). It’ll be carried out because of fear and panic.

 

A whole boatload of fools in Washington, on seeing this terrible commodity-driven crisis unfold, with consumer prices shooting the moon, will scream for dollars to be printed—and their rationale will be perfectly reasonable, I can practically hear it now: “We've got to get cash into the hands of the average American citizen, so he or she can buy food and heating oil for their families! We can’t let Americans starve and freeze to death!”

 

If the Fed, Treasury, and Congress join forces to hand out money, or to pay higher food and gasoline prices, and then hand out those goods to people who cannot afford them, then that would help to keep the hyperinflationary cycle going. And I would see this as a definite possibility. Else the shortage of cash in consumers hands will slow things down.

 

Other forms of "creativity" that might restrict foreigners ability to redeem their maturing Treasuries in cash might also slow things down. So not all governmental actions will speed up hyperinflation, many actions would tend to slow it down.

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LIRA ALSO HIGHLIGHTS THE "ONCE IN A LIFETIME OPPORTUNITIES" that would arise in a hyperinflation...

 

A true story: In ’73, at the height of the Allende-created hyperinflation, an uncle of mine, who was then a college student, was offered an apartment in exchange for his car. That’s right—an apartment. He owned a crappy little Fiat 147—a POS if ever there was such a thing—but cars in Chile in the middle of that hyperinflation were so scarce, and considered so valuable, that he was offered an apartment in exchange. To this day, my uncle still tells the story—with deep regret, because he didn’t follow through on the offer: “That Fiat was in the junkyard by ’78, but that apartment still stands! And today it’s worth nearly a half a million dollars!” Actually, I think it’s worth a bit more than that.

 

Another true story: A banker friend of mine manages the assets of a fabulously wealthy 70-something gentleman, whom I'll call Alfredo. In 1973, Don Alfredo was a youngish man, just starting out, with a degree in engineering but no money—until he inherited US$3,000 from a deceased aunt. Alfredo realized that the $3,000 were in a sense worthless: He couldn’t buy anything with them, and it wasn’t enough for him to leave the country and start over someplace else. After all, even then, $3,000 was not that much money.

 

So he took those $3,000, went down to the stock exchange, and spent all of it on Chilean blue-chip companies: Mining companies, chemical companies, paper companies, and so on. The stock were selling for nothing—less than penny stock—because of the disastrous policies of the Allende government. His stock broker at the time told him not to buy stocks, as Allende’s government, it was thought, would soon nationalize these companies as well.

 

Alfredo ignored his broker, and went ahead with the stock purchases: He spent all of his $3,000 on buckets of near-worthless equities.

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HAS THE FED ALREADY PRINT ENOUGH money to trigger Hyperinflation ?

 

This seems to be a key question - And Lira argues that it has printed enough:

 

His mechanism is that a selling Panic OUT OF BONDS by institutions will translate into a sharp rally in traded commodities, and then into the prices of essentials for Main Street - things like: gasoline and food. Here's how he puts it:

 

"But if the higher consumer prices continue—or become worse—what will happen to the 320 million American consumers? They’ll start buying more gas now, rather than wait around for tomorrow—and the market will react to this. How? Two way: Prices of commodities will rise even further—and asset prices will fall even lower.

 

Again, the man in the desert, the diamonds, and the water: If American consumers are getting hit at the gas station and the supermarket, they’ll start selling everything so as to buy gas, heating oil (most especially) and foodstuffs. The Treasury panic will thus be transfered to the average consumer—from Wall Street to Main Street by way of $15 a gallon gas prices, and $10 a gallon heating oil prices.

 

All other consumer prices would soon follow the leads of gas, heating oil and food."

 

Mish says: Phooey! That's like Shazaam!, a fantasized magical result.

 

And I do agree with Mish that some mechanism seems to be missing. Of course, if traded commodities do go up, like oil and copper and wheat did in 2008, then the prices of gasoline and food will go up too, perhaps not immediately, since prices will take time to work their way through the pipeline. In 2008, those prices rises helped to tank the global economy, and probably stocks too (although the stock crash was helped along by the big banking and credit crisis.)

 

The missing mechanism that would sustain an emerging rise in prices would be getting money into people's hands so that they will pay those higher prices for essentials. In 2008, many people drove less, and traded down in their food consumption.

 

Here's how Lira puts it:

"That last bit—palliative dollar-printing: That’s the key. When palliative dollar-printing happens, it will be the final stages of hyperinflation—it’s when sensible people ought to realize that the crisis is almost over, and that a new normal will soon appear. But this stage will be fucking awful.

 

Palliative dollar printing will take place when the Federal government simply runs out of options. Smart economists will get on CNBC and argue that, “The velocity of money is destroying the economy—we must expand the currency base!” It’ll sound logical, but palliative money-printing will be a policy option born out of panic. The final policy option. It won’t be done for evil conspiratorial reasons—always remember Aphorism #6 (“Never ascribe to malice what can be explained by incompetence.”). It’ll be carried out because of fear and panic.

 

A whole boatload of fools in Washington, on seeing this terrible commodity-driven crisis unfold, with consumer prices shooting the moon, will scream for dollars to be printed—and their rationale will be perfectly reasonable, I can practically hear it now: “We've got to get cash into the hands of the average American citizen, so he or she can buy food and heating oil for their families! We can’t let Americans starve and freeze to death!”

 

If the Fed, Treasury, and Congress join forces to hand out money, or to pay higher food and gasoline prices, and then hand out those goods to people who cannot afford them, then that would help to keep the hyperinflationary cycle going. And I would see this as a definite possibility. Else the shortage of cash in consumers hands will slow things down.

 

Other forms of "creativity" that might restrict foreigners ability to redeem their maturing Treasuries in cash might also slow things down. So not all governmental actions will speed up hyperinflation, many actions would tend to slow it down.

 

All that is required is 'some inflation'.

 

So you have to come up with a scenario that with 'some inflation' people in power decide to destroy the system that gives them their privilidges on the basis that they say 8% inflation is 'insufficient inflation' or too little to be concerned about.

 

Currently policy makers are dealing with declining prices, barely rising prices and strongly rising prices - here and there anyway - the trend is not yet clear.

 

As Mish says from where does the Shazaam come from?

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Amongst other things, he talks about hyperinflation in CHILE...

 

One of the effects of Chile's hyperinflation was the collapse in asset prices.

 

This would seem counterintuitive. After all, if the prices of consumer goods and basic staples are rising in a hyperinflationary environment, then asset prices should rise as well—right? Equities should rise in price—since more money is chasing after the same number of stock. Real estate prices should rise also—and for the same reason. Right?

 

Actually, wrong—and for a simple reason: Once basic necessities are unmet, and remain unmet for a sustained period of time, any asset will be willingly and instantly sacrificed, in order to meet that basic need.

 

To put it in simple terms: If you were dying of thirst in the middle of the desert, would you give up your family heirloom diamonds, in exchange for a gallon of water? The answer is obvious—yes. You would sacrifice anything and everyting—instantly—in order to meet your basic needs, or those of your family.

 

So as the situation in Chile deteriorated in '72 and into '73, the stock market collapsed, the housing market collapsed—everything collapsed, as people either cashed out of their assets in order to buy basic goods and staples on the black market, or cashed out so as to leave the country altogether. No asset class was safe, from this sell-off—it was across-the-board, and total.

 

 

Tis true.

 

There are plenty of examples of hyperinflation to study - and they are all on the net. If you read them all will become clear.

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A pretty good projection of what could happen, under one scenario. However, I think the authorities, mindful of these possibilities, with intervene in currency markets to prevent a chaotic crisis. The intervention will likely take the form of an organized devaluation of the USD, coordinated with other countries. It may be possible to do this through government-to-government coordination. However, they could also devalue the USD by fixing it to gold at above current market prices. This could be done by adopting a formal gold standard or, perhaps, by announcing the US Treasury's willingness/intent to buy gold at some higher value, say $2-4000; this announcement would effectively devalue the USD.

 

The authorities (most likely) want to avoid uncertainty, panic, and chaos, hence, they will seek an organized devaluation.

 

In fact, the only way the Federal government might be able to ameliorate the situation is if it decided to seize control of major supermarkets and gas stations, and hand out coupon cards of some sort, for basic staples—in other words, food rationing. This might prevent riots and protect the poor, the infirm and the old—it certainly won’t change the underlying problem, which will be hyperinflation.

 

This reminds me of Marc Faber suggesting that capitalism could collapse like communism collapsed.

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... by announcing the US Treasury's willingness/intent to buy gold at some higher value, say $2-4000; this announcement would effectively devalue the USD.

If you added a zero, the attempt could actually be successful.

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A pretty good projection of what could happen, under one scenario. However, I think the authorities, mindful of these possibilities, with intervene in currency markets to prevent a chaotic crisis. The intervention will likely take the form of an organized devaluation of the USD, coordinated with other countries. It may be possible to do this through government-to-government coordination. However, they could also devalue the USD by fixing it to gold at above current market prices. This could be done by adopting a formal gold standard or, perhaps, by announcing the US Treasury's willingness/intent to buy gold at some higher value, say $2-4000; this announcement would effectively devalue the USD.

 

The authorities (most likely) want to avoid uncertainty, panic, and chaos, hence, they will seek an organized devaluation.

 

This reminds me of Marc Faber suggesting that capitalism could collapse like communism collapsed.

This is similiar to my take on it. But the crucial aspect imo is not the devaluation of the dollar against gold but the devaluation of the dollar relative to eastern currencies.... or should I say a rebalancing of each to the other. In general terms the currencies of developed countries need to depreciate against the currencies of developing countries, so that trade can be rebalanced.

 

Gold will no doubt play some role in this. My own view is that market forces will continue to push gold higher towards 2000..... but at the same time market forces will also push the dollar higher against other currencies. The way out of the mess... the method of devaluation [and it will be messy with capital sucked into gold above 2000, and the US economy crucified on a strong dollar], may consist in putting the dollar back on gold, at the level the market has taken it to. With the dollar fixed, then other currencies can in turn be fixed against gold, but this would involve appreciating those currencies to the appropriate levels... in order to restore balanced trade.

 

Creditor countries would take a haircut of say 30% in real terms on their reserves, but like any creditor will be happy to have the bulk of their reserves guaranteed, and a global economy/ international order salvaged.

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This is similiar to my take on it. But the crucial aspect imo is not the devaluation of the dollar against gold but the devaluation of the dollar against eastern currencies. In general terms the currencies of developed countries need to depreciate against the currencies of developing countries, so that trade can be rebalanced.

 

Gold will no doubt play some role in this. My own view is that market forces will continue to push gold higher towards 2000..... but at the same time market forces will also push the dollar higher against other currencies. The way out of the mess... the method of devaluation [and it will be messy with capital sucked into gold above 2000, and the US economy crucified on a strong dollar], may consist in putting the dollar back on gold, at the level the market has taken it to. With the dollar fixed, then other currencies can in turn be fixed against gold, but this would involve appreciating those currencies to the appropriate levels... in order to restore balanced trade.

 

Creditor countries would take a haircut of say 30% in real terms on their reserves, but like any creditor will be happy to have the bulk of their reserves guaranteed, and a global economy/ international order salvaged.

 

So an economy with a paper currency facing deflation is going to be crucified because of a strong dollar???

 

You guys all need Shazaam.

 

The magic ingredient to make fantasies come true.

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So an economy with a paper currency facing deflation is going to be crucified because of a strong dollar???

 

You guys all need Shazaam.

 

The magic ingredient to make fantasies come true.

I think the so-called fundamentals - whether a currency is paper or "backed" - are a huge distraction in this environment.

 

In the 30s, the currency was backed by gold. Even so, governments had the luxury to go off gold, or devalue the currency against gold by decree.

 

Today, the currency is backed by debt, and governments no longer have the ability to devalue by decree. Where free market forces once served to weaken our "paper" currency in a period of credit-funded expansion, those same forces may now serve to strengthen the currency in a period of contraction/ debt deflation.... short-covering of the currency. :o

 

Japan is the model developed countries will follow.

 

Anyhow, I thought you said deflationists were without imagination. :lol:

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I think the so-called fundamentals - whether a currency is paper or "backed" - are a huge distraction in this environment.

 

In the 30s, the currency was backed by gold. Even so, governments had the luxury to go off gold, or devalue the currency against gold by decree.

 

Today, the currency is backed by debt, and governments no longer have the ability to devalue by decree. Where free market forces once served to weaken our "paper" currency in a period of credit-funded expansion, those same forces may now serve to strengthen the currency in a period of contraction/ debt deflation.... short-covering of the currency. :o

 

Japan is the model developed countries will follow.

 

Anyhow, I thought you said deflationists were without imagination. :lol:

 

Governments around the world have for many decades decreed that they intend to devalue their currency by around up to 2% per annum.

 

I think you are confused though. In a credit contraction the currency becomes more valueable because it is more sought after and harder to obtain. That does not mean the government is powerless to ensure it is available as before. Nor does it mean it can not be harder to obtain if that is found to be necessary later on.

 

And governments like china will be happy that America continues to import chinese products more or less in the same quantity as before this crisis began.

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In a credit contraction the currency becomes more valueable because it is more sought after and harder to obtain.

Yes [relative to assets and marginal currencies].

 

That does not mean the government is powerless to ensure it is available as before. Nor does it mean it can not be harder to obtain if that is found to be necessary later on.

 

And governments like china will be happy that America continues to import chinese products more or less in the same quantity as before this crisis began.

No, the government is powerless due to a liquidity trap. Monetary policy is no longer effective when banks/ people do not want to carry on lending/ borrowing and instead look to recapitalize/ save/ pay down debt. A grinding debt deflation unless governments decide to drink some of that Shazzam stuff... but I think you think governments are too sensible for that. The other more sensible option is to re-boot the currency system. Bye bye market fundamentalsim.

 

As for going back to the way it was where Chinese produced and Americans consumed, this is the fantasy. Trade has to be balanced, otherwise the wheels fall of sooner or later. The question is how can the global economy be put back on a balanced footing.

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Yes [relative to assets and marginal currencies].

 

 

No, the government is powerless due to a liquidity trap. Monetary policy is no longer effective when banks/ people do not want to carry on lending/ borrowing and instead look to recapitalize/ save/ pay down debt. A grinding debt deflation unless governments decide to drink some of that Shazzam stuff... but I think you think governments are too sensible for that. The other more sensible option is to re-boot the currency system. Bye bye market fundamentalsim.

 

As for going back to the way it was where Chinese produced and Americans consumed, this is the fantasy. Trade has to be balanced, otherwise the wheels fall of sooner or later. The question is how can the global economy be put back on a balanced footing.

 

obviously the government can spend money into existance so is far from powerless to avoid deflation. In Japan for example it appears they felt they were always doing sufficient to turn around the situation and never did quite sufficient to actually achieve that. Japan appears to have lent all that money into existance. Did it really actually have to do that??

 

All that is required is a regular devaluation so that people know that there is no great advantage in delaying spending for those that want to spend.

 

The argument for an ongoing grinding deflation seems to require an act of government stupidity in my view.

 

So it is not the case they need to be particularly intelligent to avoid it.

 

Nothing magical gets created so nothing magical needs to be provided. It is just the difference between inflationary depression and deflationary depression as worse case outcomes

 

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obviously the government can spend money into existance so is far from powerless to avoid deflation. In Japan for example it appears they felt they were always doing sufficient to turn around the situation and never did quite sufficient to actually achieve that. Japan appears to have lent all that money into existance. Did it really actually have to do that??

Can they though? This would seem to be the solution, yet politically this is becoming less feasible. There is just too many angry [and organized] people in the US to allow the government to get away with more stimulus. The Fed can always QE and lend, but I think we both agree this doesn't achieve much.

 

All that is required is a regular devaluation so that people know that there is no great advantage in delaying spending for those that want to spend.

 

Easier said than done... with the current policies they have at their disposal. A radical structural solution may be found if the squeeze is painful enough. This may involve a revamping of the current international monetary system.

 

The argument for an ongoing grinding deflation seems to require an act of government stupidity in my view.

 

A gradual ongoing deflation might be the best possible outcome for the US. Continued QE, and perhaps another stimulus [if they could get one through], wouldn't reverse the economy, but would instead only serve to stave of a complete rout in the market and economic collapse.

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Can they though? This would seem to be the solution, yet politically this is becoming less feasible. There is just too many angry [and organized] people in the US to allow the government to get away with more stimulus. The Fed can always QE and lend, but I think we both agree this doesn't achieve much.

 

 

 

Easier said than done... with the current policies they have at their disposal. A radical structural solution may be found if the squeeze is painful enough. This may involve a revamping of the current international monetary system.

 

 

 

A gradual ongoing deflation might be the best possible outcome for the US. Continued QE, and perhaps another stimulus [if they could get one through], wouldn't reverse the economy, but would instead only serve to stave of a complete rout in the market and economic collapse.

 

I agree that people can always mess things up, we would not be in this situation without many mistakes.

 

But US QE has obviously been very successful. 30 year mortgages are the lowest since the 1950's and credit is available for those qualifying for it. Consumers are still very active as shown by imports and retail sales being almost at levels before this crisis began. Dispite the fears at the time many borrowers resetting from teaser rates have not found they are crushed by interest payments. The various feds have shown that they have much more power than people like me anticipated back in 2007 when i assumed rates would spike higher.

 

Meanwhile, some prices are falling and some are rising. Officially at least there is inflation where official inflation understates actual inflation usually. And they can do plenty more QE if necessary.

 

Places like the Nordics and Germany are doing ok now as far as i can see. Finland and Germany will very likely have to control bank lending or risk higher inflation as the ECB looks elsewhere. House price rises in Finland with such low mortgage rates of 2% are a bit rediculous in the circumstances and need leadership from somebody.

 

In NZ I see South Canterbury Finance has failed. That might help the economy there because those government guaranteed depositors are now able to spend and maybe a chunk of them will spend rather than be in that situation again of worrying about losing everything. So it could amount to just more stimulus from NZ.

 

Americans got too one eyed - sooner or later all of that production moving overseas was going to come back and bite them, but for sure they are not poor - they just needed to better regulate their economy. And one difficulty they had there was the mafia like nature of unionisation and equal mafia like forces at work in the financial area. But different mafias feuding.

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I just had a nice 2 Hour+ chat with Gonzalo Lira in Santiago.

 

We are planning to do a podcast for GER next week.

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sounds good

does anyone know Krassimir Petrov

also what about trying to get Catherine Austin Fitts

Good ideas.

Give us time

== ==

 

In researching for a conversation with Gonzalo, I had a listen to these two conversations with Steve Keen:

 

1/ Predictions For 2010: Steve Keen

Posted by commoditywatch on December 13th, 2009

 

2/ On the Edge with . . . Steve Keen (2/2)

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