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BITCOINS : General Discussions (combined)

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This guy called Tim Berners-Lee has developed something called the 'web';

 

the-sun-on-the-internet.jpeg

 

So apparently this "Internet" system means that we will all be able to link up in a 'web' to communicate.

 

I mean, what a load of nonsense, that's never going to work.

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I'm showing my age - I've never heard of these things. I'm not even sure I really understand these crypto-currencies either

 

http://www.silverdoctors.com/forget-the-yuan-or-bitcoin-will-this-be-the-new-world-reserve-currency/

 

Forget the Yuan or Bitcoin, Will This Be the New World Reserve Currency?

 

KlickEx is pleased to announce the development of a new asset-backed and algorithmic crypto-currency for institutional and retail use. A stable, international risk-free asset is a key foundation for efficient financial markets, and KlickEx’s award winning interbank payment network has an exemplary track record in stability, and efficiency. Having eradicated the significant systematic deficiencies of Bitcoin, then bridged the portfolio limitations of the IMF’s SDR, the new base asset is a proactive response to recent negative public sentiment towards banking in general, and recent global events including The GFC, Euro-Crisis, BASEL II, III, and fiscal & political instability in Prime currencies

 

Yeah.

I am speaking to some folks who are now working on Coin designs like this

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79% "would never consider... using Bitcoins"

 

Hmm.

There's plenty of room to convert new users

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Clif High posted this update

http://halfpasthuman.com/

 

Analyzing cryptocurrencies with the 'tools' developed for debt-based, fiat (central bankster controlled) currencies will fail, as cryptocurrencies are 'frictionless', unlike debt based fiat, and bitcoin (unique (so far) among cryptocurrencies) has the 'network effect', again, not found within fiat, central controlled anything. Therefore projections made from such tools against cryptocurrencies are just as useful in the real world as an economics degree. (2.14.2014)

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From Clif High

BTC Phishing going on now....coming in by emails, claiming to have sent a .000000001 (9 digits) payment...NOT real. Trying to get you to respond, so they can grab your wallet id info....

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79% "would never consider... using Bitcoins"

 

Hmm.

There's plenty of room to convert new users

 

Yes exactly, I am one myself having purchased a few coins over the last two days. I think it's largely misunderstood, this makes it a slow burner for people to catch on to. I actually don't believe that it is a currency though, it's more akin to a commodity with limited supply that some are using as if it were a currency.

 

The fact that it's the first of its kind and there is a finite supply are very attractive, the biggest risk is if a fatal flaw is found in which case it goes to zero, although from what I keep hearing it's technically resilient although I'll have to rely on the boffins being correct on that one. It has survived the China shock and appears to have survived the transaction malleability shock which I think is very impressive.

 

I plan to hold for 18 years, as a present for my son who is due any day now.

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The way I see bit coin is nothing more than a pyramid scam that is backed by nothing. I expect this to crash in a spectacular way. You could say the same thing with dollars or sterling except these are backed through taxation of the people. Fiat currency is also backed by the property in a nation. The value of a property may crash but at least there is a physical asset at the end of the day. So Bit coin is not for me

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The way I see bit coin is nothing more than a pyramid scam that is backed by nothing. I expect this to crash in a spectacular way. You could say the same thing with dollars or sterling except these are backed through taxation of the people. Fiat currency is also backed by the property in a nation. The value of a property may crash but at least there is a physical asset at the end of the day. So Bit coin is not for me

 

Possibly - but the Debt Levels in the USD are already beyond the value of US assets - so the backing is "insufficient"

 

from Bill Still - as reported on DrBubb's Diary

US Debt out-of-control (at $70 Trillion) ... as Congress "obliterates debt ceiling" -says Bill Still

 

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Chinese exchange (BTC) is offering Bitcoins again... "in re-interpretation of the law"

 

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From Business Insider;

 

 

"CHART OF THE DAY: Bitcoin Can Be The New Western Union

No one knows for sure whether Bitcoin is a currency or a means of transferring funds.

In his new note on Bitcoin, Bank of America Merrill Lynch currency analyst David Woo buys into the argument from Bitcoin evangelists that the digital currency can be both.

And in discussing its value as a means for wiring money, Woo goes big.

Some background: When discussing Bitcoin's potential value, people often use the example of a migrant worker in the U.S. using Bitcoin as an alternative means to send remittances home. There are no known examples of this happening yet — as with many things bitcoin, this is pure speculation — but it's technically possible.

There is also speculation that this use is one of the reasons for bitcoin's extreme growth in China, since the country's capital controls make it difficult to perform transactions overseas using yuan.

So Woo draws up a very bullish comparison between bitcoin and Western Union, MoneyGram, and Euronet, the world's largest wire transfer companies. He frames it in the context of those companies' market cap (or enterprise value, which includes debt), and compares it to Bitcoin's market cap, which is now $13 billion.

"Let’s assume that Bitcoin becomes one of the top three players in this industry. What does that mean for Bitcoin valuation? Given Bitcoin’s supply is fixed, when one buys a Bitcoin, one is acquiring not only a medium of exchange but also an investment in the enterprise value of Bitcoin. From this point of view, Bitcoin's market capitalization could be viewed, with a little leap of faith, as its enterprise value. With the average market capitalization of Western Union, MoneyGram and Euronet at about $4.5bn, we will add this number to the maximum market capitalization of Bitcoin’s role as a medium of exchange."

So bitcoin is technically already worth nearly three-times as much as the average market cap of the big three wire companies. Woo includes a chart comparing bitcoin specifically to Western Union.

"Assuming Bitcoin becomes (1) a major player in both e- commerce and money transfer and (2) a significant store of value with a reputation close to silver, our fair value analysis implies a maximum market capitalization of Bitcoin of $15bn (1BTC = 1300 USD)," said Woo.

More fuel for the frenzy.

 

cotd-88.jpg



Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/bitcoin-can-be-the-new-western-union-2013-12#ixzz2teR1krcq"

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Clif High's Wujo presentation : Feb 14, 2014

MP3 : http://halfpasthuman.com/audio/wujo/clifswujo2142014btc.mp3

A former IT programmer, CH was one of the early adopters of Bitcoins, who has been promoting it in his podcasts and on his website for years. He often makes some interesting comments about Bitcoins on his podcast, and the latest one is no exception.

Here are some highlights from is Feb. 14th podcast:

+ MtGox started off as something called Magic Game Online, for exchanging trading cards, and other things. And they were never properly set up as a professional Crypto exchange. There back office was primitive, and the guys running it are young - and did not do sufficient planning. It grew because it was first, and functional. When the volume took off, they were struggling to cope. They did not hire that programmers with the right skills, and set up customer service for their growth

+ High is of the opinion that they (MtGox) are not duplicitous. And took the wrong way of doing verification. It left them open to the Malleability problem. They did not handle well. And they lost their ability to transact

+ What is needed now is a CLEARINGHOUSE, not just an exchange. (some say that would mean less anonmynity, but perhaps not.) Bitcoins have an advantage, in that the coin is self-validating, and is in fungible, in mature, deliverable form.

+ The survivability of exchanges is limited into the early stages, only a few will be around, after a proper Clearinghouse is established. High thinks that Bitstamp and BTC-e look like they have the best chances for long term survival, with good back ends and customer service.

+ The future of MtGox is uncertain. He thinks that the coins in MtGox may "NOT be at risk."

+ Clif thinks the attacks on the exchanges were orchestrated and even "criminal" and it is possible that big banks were involved... They may have been trying to undermine the credibility of Cryptos. But, as High says, "Bitcoins is anti-fragile", and will get stronger after this crisis passes. "The software can be fixed," High points out.

+ Unless the Alternative coins offer something superior "they are doomed to failure." Bitcoins has the advantage over all the others because of its network - it is spendable, all over the word. Only Litccoin has made some small steps in that direction. He doesn;t think they will fade quickly, but he thinks the other Cryptos could fade within three years. The fading of the other coins will help Bitcoins, where the network will go on building, in High's opinion. NameCoin also has a chance to survive.

+ This is the first of three technical crisis that Clif High has forecast, but I thinks the worst of it will peak in early March

== ==

Could there be a $50,000 bitcoin? - says article in ... FORTUNE, dated: Feb., 18, 2014
> http://finance.fortune.cnn.com/2014/02/18/50000-bitcoin/

" If $300 billion in international remittance was conducted in bitcoin, that volume alone would push the price to $42,000. Adding these, along with online poker and gas station transactions, would lead to a total transaction volume of $602 billion – and a bitcoin, even at today's expanded supply of 12 million coins, worth $50,000."

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From Clif High

BTC Phishing going on now....coming in by emails, claiming to have sent a .000000001 (9 digits) payment...NOT real. Trying to get you to respond, so they can grab your wallet id info....

 

 

Update from Clif High

OK, it was not phishing, it was a 'storage' play with the blockchain where someone was embedding data ...all those single satoshi transactions that then disappeared (because they did not travel past the first primary node)...there is a better way guys...80 bytes are allowed for storage use. Use opcode provennotspendable. Article at reddit on the stuff cluttering blockchain.

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Has the Music stopped for "the Magic Card Online Gaming Exchange" / MtGox?

 

"MtGox Finished"

 

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-02-20/bitcoin-exchange-mt-gox-finished

 

/ Bitcoin on Bitstamp : is still range trading /

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Charts: Bitcoins etc : BTC:1-year : 4-mos : 10d : Ticks : cm

BTC-24HR-LG.png< self-updating- Mt.GOX (distorted)

 

5-Days-Showing the Drop / 10d: http://tinyurl.com/bts-10d

 

 

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Still Report #192 - PayPal Going Crypto

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This is a very positive - being able to use paypal in digital wallets

Still Report # 191 - Free Crypto Classifieds

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"Ads are only taken in Crypto currencies"

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"Bitcoin Jesus", AA, tackles some tough questions in an effective way

Bitcoin Cryptocurrency Crash Course with Andreas Antonopoulos - Jefferson Club Dinner Meetup

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Published on 25 Sep 2013

 

DANGER:

"You cannot just take general purpose computers and make them Internet Wallets"

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http://www.dailydot.com/crime/harvard-odessey-dogcoin-mining/

Scurvy doge commandeers Harvard supercomputers to mine cryptocurrency

Excerpt:

The mining was timed to perfectly coincide with an anticipated doubling in the price of Dogecoin.

That increase never came to pass but Timothy R. Peterson, a postdoctoral fellow at Harvard, said a miner using the Odyssey cluster could have made anywhere from several hundred to thousands of dollars over the course of a week depending on how much of the cluster the miner was able to control.

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Comments from DrBubbs diary also relevant here ;

 

I do not understand why someone should trust his money on virtual currency.

 

If someone has found a way to hack MtGox, why should the other exchanges be safe? What about someone discovering new ways

of fooling the system?

 

Too much belief on technology, the whole system depends on trust, if trust is gone nothing remains but fresh air.

"Of course the same can be said for the dollar".

 

Can someone provide a simple yet understandable reason why someone should risk hard earned money on the bitcoin idea?

I thing the whole idea is silly.

I too originally discounted the idea until I realised essentially what has been created is a new form of creating online property, verified by a peer to peer network, this is a new form of technology with massive potential. Bitcoin is the first form of this property, people are using it as a currency and has existed for nearly 5 years despite repeated attempts by hackers to find a chink in the armour.

 

In the future a company could float using this technology, negating the requirement for a traditional exchange, with people exchanging shares of the company in the same way as people are exchanging bitcoins.

Crypto currency seems a bad idea, until you really think deeply about the way that fiat currency works,

and the abuses that our present banking system is so prone to

Thanks to positivedeviant for his insight,

 

One suggestion.

 

Perhaps it is not a coincidence that hacking has occured on a year when the price of bitcoins rose exponentially. Maybe someone knew how to

hack the system, then waited patiently until the price rose sufficiently to make him a fortune. If there is a will, there is a way and there are no limits to human ingenuity,

if the prize is high.

 

Money in the bank may not be safe to inflation, however, you would have to provide some identification to make a withdrawal.

Bitcoins instead can be stolen and apparently the thief leaves no trace.

 

Yeah.

But the Hackers have succeeded with the "weak links", like MtGox. Not the stronger folk.

 

Clif High says the Bitcoin system is "anti-fragile", and gets stronger and more secure (overall), when attacked

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A problem is that DDOS'ing a website is something a relatively inexperienced hacker can do and that does leave exchanges somewhat vulnerable however the likes of Paypal and Visa have been DDOS'ed before.

 

A big potential growth area for Bitcoins is those people in undeveloped countries that are reliant on the likes of Western Union money transfer companies, Bitcoin can perform the same service with negligible fees so Bitcoin and an online wallet can provide banking services to those people. Many have mobiles but no traditional banking services, so Bitcoin (less a bit of the volatility) is a very good solution for them.

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http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/daily-ticker/bitcoin-mt--gox-deleted-141110461.html

MtGox on verge of collapse, Bitcoin plunges: Is this the end for the virtual currency?

.... An alleged MtGox document circulating on the Internet that can't be confirmed said the company had lost more than 744,00 Bitcoins in a theft that had gone unnoticed for years.....

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http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/daily-ticker/bitcoin-mt--gox-deleted-141110461.html

MtGox on verge of collapse, Bitcoin plunges: Is this the end for the virtual currency?

.... An alleged MtGox document circulating on the Internet that can't be confirmed said the company had lost more than 744,00 Bitcoins in a theft that had gone unnoticed for years.....

 

That's an alarmist headline.

I disagree that this is "the end of virtual currency".

Instead: the buyers are coming in

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