AndyT

It's a fair point and it's not one I've had to deal with until recently: my mother is retired and spends most of her time back home (in another European country) and recently she decided that to simplify her life, she should sell her freehold property (shop plus flat above). The only problem is that it earns her an income and its around 6.5% which is not available almost anywhere else, so she is thinking about putting it in the hands of an agent so she can move back home and not have to deal with tenancy issues directly. This confirms what you were saygin about returns - there are not many classes of investment that do as well as property which is why it can be compelling and so much money ends up there. This may be obvious for most, but its taken me until this point of having to help deal with 'excess cash' to realise that property 'makes sense'. It is surely insane to keep stoking the bubble but I'm finally starting to think that my 'priced out' generation may be priced out for good and the crash simply wont happen (or at least it may not be dramatic).

That makes sense now as they're not paying for the £100k or so from Help to Buy for 5 years. Im not one to push this, but if I was going to buy a new property I would definitely use the scheme especially in London where its 40% contribution. That figure itself demonstrates the insanity of our current situation! Like you I waited for the crash that didnt really happen. I think that if it ever does, it will crash everything in the country and that's will stop at nothing to keep it going.

I think Barratts are much larger and more diversified. I'm intrigued by the example of your sons who are paying £1200 per month, where the rent would be circa £1900. If you dont mind me asking - did you put down a very large deposit? It sounds like an enormous difference. I've been waiting to buy for years (in my 40s now) but I havent seen sucha wide gap between renting/buying.

This is surely the case... even if I take off my cynic's glasses, the developers at best are chasing the market up and at worst slamming 20% on. I never thought I'd check out this government scheme but out of desperation I did. Conclusion? Looking through the stuff on offer through Help To Buy, its like they want to squeeze everyone into high-rise flats if they ahve anything less than 500k to spend. We might just about stretch to a house but will be overleveraged and buying into what feels like an insane market place (prices shooting up easily 10% a year) even in the less glamorous NW London suburbs. On a personal note, I can get a 280k mortgage which on a 55% basis means we could 'afford' a 510k house. There's nothing like that in the new build sector... the cheapest we can find is £585k (http://www.bellway.co.uk/new-homes/north-london/abbotswood-park). Our only choice will be to move further out. I dont know if we'll see the end of this crazy setup in my lifetime anyway (im in my 40's).

Thanks for that... will keep an interested eye on it... do you keep that data on here somewhere or do you just post charts now and again?

You could be right - it might be a ploy to develop a 'goodtimes' sentiment prior to election - FWIW, I think it will work too. I think they looked at the 'recovery' unfolding at snail's pace and thought that they should add HTB to the other strategies in place. I dont htink they expected the other 'positives' to develop so fast though - unemployment going below 7%, wages rising a bit, inflation dropping off, consumption up etc. If they could have seen that coming, would they have thrown further fuel on the fire in the shape of HTB? Maybe they didnt expect HTB to be so successful - they have started to use 'reigning-in' language now they can another bubble forming. The horse has well and truly bolted though, based on personal experience as I am literally priced out, despite a £75k income. If houses in the suburbs are now over £400k and I can't afford them, who is buying? It can only be the desperate, well-off, BTL landlords, or HTB-supported buyers. And I guess that they will be pleased that they've been able to achieve their own place, understandably. I am kicking myself for hesitating and not buying at £375k a year ago.

This is like deja-vu... we'll be asking in a couple of years how come we were so stupid as to allow HelptoBuy or whatever it's called. Please hurry up and top dear market! And then start correcting! I should change my name to Mr Angry - even with a half-decent job plus good deposit, in the far reaches of Zone 5 (Harrow/Hillingdon), I am looking at £400k+ for a 3-bed semi. It used to be £50k less till everyone went nuts and wanted some of the action! Seriously you have to see some of the crap on offer for £300-350k to understand how screwed up things are. I keep thinking I should give up on buying something for my family (of four) but in the back of my mind I pray things unravel so I can buy something.

A historic luxury... you put it so well! And it's defintiely a new world order... I mean most of us ordinary folk have had our expectations massaged down and accept the new norm: - You should be grateful you have a job and if you have to work harder for a slightly lower standard of living, that's how it is. - You will work till you're 67 so you are braced for it (assuming you paid off your sudent loan by then) - Erosion of public services like health - very gradual but definitely there from expereince and what my wife (a nurse) tells me is going on. - Add on top of that, the fear factor built into our daily lives about things like extremists etc I dont think we'll go back to the old 'good times' anytime soon. The landscape has changed entirely and survival is a much tougher fight than it used to be.

He goes on "...and gives consumers the opportunity to jump on the property ladder without having to scrimp and save for an unrealistic deposit." Honestly, please throw yourself off a cliff and take your empathy with you.

Van, I share your positions and have done for years... it's criminal what's going on and I can't begin to explain how pissed off I am that I am almost priced out of the market... A personal scenario to show briefly my quandry: With a 40% deposit saved, in 2006 I nearly bought a 3-bed house in Harrow for £270k. I chickened out - we could afford the mortgage but with no breathing room. Fast forward 7 years and that house is on the market at £365k (but probably sell for £340-350k). If I had bought it then, I would have been a third of the way through my mortgage (hindsight is great!). In the meantime I'm renting a 3-bed flat and with 2 little kids now (and a half-decent job) we want our own place/garden.... And in the market right now? People have plumped up their asking prices because the government is bank-rolling mortgages. The thought of continuing to live in a place I don't especially like is not good, but the alternative is buying at these prices, which I agree are due a fall inside a few years. How I'm going to convince my wife that it's another 3 years of waiting though after I told her that story 3 years ago is another problem. I have no idea how typical my situation or the follwoing is, but here's the history of the house I nearly bought: June '06 - Sold for £272k Sep '10 Marketed for £300k Dec '12 Marketed for £320k Nov '13 Being marketed at £365 If I'm not mistaken Help to Buy government cash will end up in the pockets of developers and people that have inflated their asking prices. This would be funny if it wasn't so tragic.

I'm just guessing, but the growth in silver ounces is probably more due to the fact that people are opting to buy it from GM where it's VAT-free! Not to mention that on a 60:1 ratio, you would need to dig a far bigger hole to hide it in