Green Energy Investors > Will the BBC control UK internet access?

No6

Sep 28 2006, 07:59 PM

The BBC are clearly trying to get the Government moving towards having PC's included as part of the license fee in future. If this happens, by default even if you don't ever intend using your pc as a TV, but just for say, internet access, you will have to pay the TV license fee. Of course, most people will be covered because they already have a license for their TV, but this is not the point. What if you don't have a TV (I don't) but you have a PC and use the internet? You will need a BBC License to access the internet. They will then have become the ultimate Big Brother Corporation.

And today, the Beeb takes another step towards it's ultimate ambition to be the controllers of the UK web.

QUOTE

The BBC and Microsoft have signed a "memorandum of understanding" for developing the next generation of the corporation's internet-based services.

The BBC director general, Mark Thompson, and the director of new media, Ashley Highfield, agreed the non-exclusive deal with the Microsoft chairman, Bill Gates, in Seattle.

A BBC statement said: "The memorandum of understanding will define the framework within which the companies can explore opportunities for the delivery and consumption of BBC content and the evolution of next-generation broadcasting.

"This includes plans for its online archive, for a radically reinvented website in the web 2.0 world - a second generation of internet-based services - and for ways to share its online content in the future."

Areas of potential collaboration include search and navigation, distribution and content enablement.

The BBC statement added: "Any actual procurements of new technology, or launch of new services by the BBC, would be subject to appropriate regulatory approval."

Mr Thompson said: "To ensure that the BBC is able to embrace the creative challenges of the digital future, we need to forge strategic partnerships with technology companies and distributors for the benefit of licence payers."

Mr Highfield added: "Microsoft is a key gateway to audiences that the BBC needs to reach through web services it runs like MSN and Windows Live Messenger, and hardware such as Xbox and the Windows Media Center.

"The BBC needs to work with all players in this space to make sure our programmes and content are enjoyed by the widest possible audience, without always having to come to bbc.co.uk to find it."

http://business.guardian.co.uk/story/0,,1883160,00.html

And to force more people into paying their license tax.

(I've put this on the general discussion thread even though it is really off topic so that it gets a bit of a run and others hopefully see it and comment. I'll be interested to hear what others think on this. Please feel free to move this off-topic once it's had a run on here.)

surfgatinho

Sep 28 2006, 09:03 PM

I hate the BBC so much for their anti-comptetive forays into the internet. I make most of my money through regional interest websites and it pisses me right off to see the BBC wade in with their limitless funding and displace good sites.
It's not even that the BBC is more informative, it's the fact they are the BBC so straight to number one in the search engines.

I think the Conservative party recently raised the point that the BBC was stifling free enterprise online - dam right!

needle

Sep 29 2006, 01:58 AM

I'd prefer the BBC to 'control' the internet than have BSkyB or some other right-wing foreign corporation at the helm.

douche dore

Sep 29 2006, 10:59 AM

Dont even get me started on the BBC - absolutely outrageous that i have to pay for some left leaning heavily biased news corporation providing a service that is readily available by competitors.

No6

Sep 30 2006, 11:54 AM

QUOTE(needle @ Sep 29 2006, 02:58 AM)

I'd prefer the BBC to 'control' the internet than have BSkyB or some other right-wing foreign corporation at the helm.

I'd prefer none of them, but BSkyB, despite Murdoch's power get nothing from the TV license. My point is as the BBC expands its output and range, what technology will be included in the license fee in future, PC's and the internet next, then what? X-boxes, play-stations, IPods, etc, where does it end?

Note this from the above article.

"Mr Highfield added: "Microsoft is a key gateway to audiences that the BBC needs to reach through web services it runs like MSN and Windows Live Messenger, and hardware such as Xbox and the Windows Media Center."

Mabon

Sep 30 2006, 12:57 PM

I believe that somebody pointed out (was it this site or HPC?) that if the issue is that they are pissed off with people watching their programmes for 'free' over the internet, then, they can encrypt their internet content and use a person's licence number as their access code which would cut that right down to minimal levels.

Therefore they wouldn't have to impose such draconian measures in order to stop the 'pilferage'.

If this is the case and doable, I wonder then what their true motives be?

Also, as approximately 98 percent of the UK public has a TV licence, then surely no significant amount of the population are actually getting this content for 'free' because they've already paid for their licences, therefore paid for BBC services across all media.

No6

Sep 30 2006, 05:33 PM

QUOTE(Mabon @ Sep 30 2006, 01:57 PM)

I believe that somebody pointed out (was it this site or HPC?) that if the issue is that they are pissed off with people watching their programmes for 'free' over the internet, then, they can encrypt their internet content and use a person's licence number as their access code which would cut that right down to minimal levels.

Therefore they wouldn't have to impose such draconian measures in order to stop the 'pilferage'.

If this is the case and doable, I wonder then what their true motives be?

Also, as approximately 98 percent of the UK public has a TV licence, then surely no significant amount of the population are actually getting this content for 'free' because they've already paid for their licences, therefore paid for BBC services across all media.

I mentioned the password protection and encryption point on this thread.

http://www.greenenergyinvestors.com/index.php?showtopic=582

And you are probably right in that 98% would be covered if the licence fee was extended to PC's, because they would have it for their TV anyway, but this is like the tyranny of the majority in action. The principle remains that some may not have a TV, but use the internet, they would effectively be forced by law to fund the BBC in order to access the internet.

It is already the case that if you watch TV over a PC, the licence is needed, although how the BBC's storm troopers, sorry, detection officers can prove this is anyone's guess. I think you still need an aerial for the software to work to watch via a PC.

Questiondog

Jan 30 2009, 02:02 PM

too late

http://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/information/index.jsp

"Do I need a TV Licence?

You must be covered by a valid TV Licence if you watch or record television programmes as they're being shown on TV. It makes no difference what equipment you use - whether it’s a laptop, PC, mobile phone, digital box, DVD recorder or a TV set - you still need a licence. "

if you have a mobile phone capable of displaying the bbc website.. you need a tv licence....

liamsquire

Jan 30 2009, 04:39 PM

QUOTE (Questiondog @ Jan 30 2009, 02:02 PM)

too late

http://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/information/index.jsp

"Do I need a TV Licence?

You must be covered by a valid TV Licence if you watch or record television programmes as they're being shown on TV. It makes no difference what equipment you use - whether it’s a laptop, PC, mobile phone, digital box, DVD recorder or a TV set - you still need a licence. "

if you have a mobile phone capable of displaying the bbc website.. you need a tv licence....

What if you have a device capable but do not use it for watching or recording TV?

Injin

Jan 30 2009, 04:56 PM

QUOTE (liamsquire @ Jan 30 2009, 04:39 PM)

What if you have a device capable but do not use it for watching or recording TV?

You only need a TV licence if you are in the Uk.

Personally, I always ask them to prove I am!

The BBC is a private company with quasi governmental status, it has no power of enforcement, and it's "enforcement officers" are entirely toothless.

The whole thing is a confidence trick. They've got no more power to take action against you than Noddy and Big Ears.

No6

Jan 30 2009, 06:14 PM

QUOTE (Questiondog @ Jan 30 2009, 03:02 PM)

too late

http://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/information/index.jsp

"Do I need a TV Licence?

You must be covered by a valid TV Licence if you watch or record television programmes as they're being shown on TV. It makes no difference what equipment you use - whether it’s a laptop, PC, mobile phone, digital box, DVD recorder or a TV set - you still need a licence. "

if you have a mobile phone capable of displaying the bbc website.. you need a tv licence....

And you believe what the BBC say?! You will note that they do not mention the internet in relation to PC's and laptops. The law currently covers PC's that have TV cards in them, nothing else. Most PC's still do not come with a TV card, but if you buy one that is "tv ready" then it will have and the retailer will notify the BBC licencing authorities when you purchase a pc from them, just as they do now when you buy a TV. The internet is not covered by any law so far and is actually unenforceable without the cooperation of the ISP's. Even then it would be difficult.

QUOTE (liamsquire @ Jan 30 2009, 05:39 PM)

What if you have a device capable but do not use it for watching or recording TV?

In theory if you have a video player and TV and only use it to watch videos, then you should not have to buy a TV licence. In practice it would be difficult to prove either way that you were not watching TV, so I suspect that anyone who got caught would probably be fined and required to get a licence because that is the way the law tends to go.

No6

Jan 30 2009, 06:21 PM

QUOTE

Do I need a TV Licence?

You must be covered by a valid TV Licence if you watch or record television programmes as they're being shown on TV. It makes no difference what equipment you use - whether it’s a laptop, PC, mobile phone, digital box, DVD recorder or a TV set - you still need a licence.

You do not need a TV Licence to view video clips on the internet, as long as what you are viewing is not being shown on TV at the same time as you are viewing it.

If you use a digital box with a hi-fi system, or another device that can only be used to produce sounds and can't display TV programmes, and you don't install or use any other TV receiving equipment, you don't need a TV Licence.

http://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/information/index.jsp

And how would they prove this?

Come on BBC, stop being idiots and just encrypt your content on the internet by using the licence fee number as the login for people to see your content. Why don't they do this? Because they feel that it should be "free" to everyone.

At least that's what they say.

mSparks

Jan 30 2009, 06:22 PM

QUOTE (Injin @ Jan 30 2009, 04:56 PM)

You only need a TV licence if you are in the Uk.

Personally, I always ask them to prove I am!

The BBC is a private company with quasi governmental status, it has no power of enforcement, and it's "enforcement officers" are entirely toothless.

The whole thing is a confidence trick. They've got no more power to take action against you than Noddy and Big Ears.

Right idea, wrong tactic.
You only need the licence to watch (so you can be in the UK, and own a television)
They need to prove.
1. Its your TV that was on.
2. It was you that was watching it.
3. That you are responsable for the building that is unlicenced.

[Disclaimer: I have a TV licence - The wife made me]

Injin

Jan 30 2009, 06:28 PM

QUOTE (mSparks @ Jan 30 2009, 06:22 PM)

Right idea, wrong tactic.

You sure?

I've not paid taxes or licences in years and I always offer to.

QUOTE

You only need the licence to watch (so you can be in the UK, and own a television)
They need to prove.
1. Its your TV that was on.
2. It was you that was watching it.
3. That you are responsable for the building that is unlicenced.

[Disclaimer: I have a TV licence - The wife made me]

I ask for proof I am in the UK, what the UK is and so on.

They never want to go there in public because the UK isn't real so I get left alone.

littledavesab

Jan 30 2009, 06:29 PM

One thing seems to have changed re TV licences and big brother. Back in the good ole days when you purchased a TV or VCR you had to give your name and address - that is so they can double check you are licenced and if you are not, expect a knock at the door.

My Dad purchased his first new TV for 25 years at XMas from Tesco and they did not ask !

No6

Jan 30 2009, 06:33 PM

QUOTE (mSparks @ Jan 30 2009, 07:22 PM)

Right idea, wrong tactic.
You only need the licence to watch (so you can be in the UK, and own a television)
They need to prove.
1. Its your TV that was on.
2. It was you that was watching it.
3. That you are responsable for the building that is unlicenced.

[Disclaimer: I have a TV licence - The wife made me]

I think most people who get caught tend to give in. If the TV licencing people ever turn up remember to tell them to go and get a warrant as they have no right of entry. Then when they come back with it don't answer the door. I'm sure warrant's only last for a certain time period, so they will have to go and get another one. Make life difficult for them and don't answer any of their questions.

I just ignore their letters, there again I don't have a TV so don't care.

QUOTE

The question remains: What if you don't have a TV? Unfortunately, this is a problem. In the eyes of the TVLA and BBC: "Doesn't everybody watch and own a television?"

For some who don't like television and don't watch television and don't own a television, the TVLA becomes an annual ballet of phone calls, letters and TV licence inspectors. Duncan Bennett has created an entire website devoted to his struggles with the TVLA. "I have not had a television for many years," he states on his website. "One would think that would be an end to it, but it isn't. One cannot simply refuse this entertainment service, without appearing to be dishonest in the eyes of TV Licensing (a.k.a. the Television Licensing Authority or TVLA). The non-viewer does not fit into their framework. To them there are licence-payers and licence-dodgers and the non-viewer (with whom they really have no business) is treated as a suspect licence-dodger."

In an email, Bennett wrote that "living without a television in the UK is not as simple as getting rid of the TV set. In the UK the licensing authority operates under legal statute giving them wide powers. The licensing authority have no real concept of the non-viewer and class them as suspect licence-dodgers. Thus, we are subject threats and other manner of persecution. Considering we are only refusing an entertainment service it is a ridiculous situation."

http://www.turnoffyourtv.com/international/bbc.html

No6

Jan 30 2009, 06:46 PM

QUOTE (littledavesab @ Jan 30 2009, 07:29 PM)

One thing seems to have changed re TV licences and big brother. Back in the good ole days when you purchased a TV or VCR you had to give your name and address - that is so they can double check you are licenced and if you are not, expect a knock at the door.

My Dad purchased his first new TV for 25 years at XMas from Tesco and they did not ask !

Perhaps it was because the cashier on the till didn't know or just put it through like everything else.

QUOTE

Why does a TV Dealer need to notify you of all sales and rentals?

If you sell or rent TV receiving equipment, under The Wireless Telegraphy Act 1967 (as amended) - you are required to notify us within 28 days of each transaction, providing full details of the purchaser or hirer.

This includes the sale or rental of any new or second-hand:

* TVs
* VCRs
* DVD recorders
* Set-top boxes
* PCs with broadcast (TV) cards
* TV cards

http://tvlicensing.metafaq.com/templates/t...ain/resultsPage

chazza

Jan 30 2009, 08:23 PM

QUOTE (No6 @ Jan 30 2009, 06:46 PM)

Perhaps it was because the cashier on the till didn't know or just put it through like everything else.

I bought one from Asda a year or so ago, no checks either.

No6

Jan 30 2009, 08:36 PM

QUOTE (littledavesab @ Jan 30 2009, 07:29 PM)

One thing seems to have changed re TV licences and big brother. Back in the good ole days when you purchased a TV or VCR you had to give your name and address - that is so they can double check you are licenced and if you are not, expect a knock at the door.

My Dad purchased his first new TV for 25 years at XMas from Tesco and they did not ask !

Anyway, here's what you do if you intend to buy a new TV in the future. Pay cash, give a false name and a genuine address, anyone will do, pick one from a street map before you go shopping. If I buy one in the future I fancy being David Niven or Tommy Cooper, the young sales assistant will never know. What can they do?

QUOTE

Why does a TV Dealer need to notify you of all sales and rentals?

If you sell or rent TV receiving equipment, under The Wireless Telegraphy Act 1967 (as amended) - you are required to notify us within 28 days of each transaction, providing full details of the purchaser or hirer.

This includes the sale or rental of any new or second-hand:

* TVs
* VCRs
* DVD recorders
* Set-top boxes
* PCs with broadcast (TV) cards
* TV cards

http://tvlicensing.metafaq.com/templates/t...ain/resultsPage

No6

Jan 30 2009, 08:40 PM

QUOTE (chazza @ Jan 30 2009, 09:23 PM)

I bought one from Asda a year or so ago, no checks either.

Interesting that the examples here are Tesco and Asda, not your traditional electrical retailer. I think they may have a training issue there. Either that or the sales assistant's are just being bolshie towards the Beeb, and long may it continue.

littledavesab

Nov 13 2009, 02:20 PM

Just had a memo round my office, no one to watch video's online due to fact we are being investigated for not having a TV licence ?

This in a day and age where I can watch on my mobile phone through 02 if I wish !

Pixel8r

Nov 13 2009, 02:22 PM

QUOTE (littledavesab @ Nov 13 2009, 02:20 PM)

Just had a memo round my office, no one to watch video's online due to fact we are being investigated for not having a TV licence ?

This in a day and age where I can watch on my mobile phone through 02 if I wish !

Do they expect your company to have one TV license or multiple ones for the different viewers?

Schaublin

Nov 13 2009, 02:24 PM

QUOTE (littledavesab @ Nov 13 2009, 02:20 PM)

Just had a memo round my office, no one to watch video's online due to fact we are being investigated for not having a TV licence ?

This in a day and age where I can watch on my mobile phone through 02 if I wish !

Do you mean videos? Where is Lynne Truss when you need her?

Does an animated gif count as a video?

lupercal

Nov 13 2009, 05:27 PM

QUOTE

the TVLA becomes an annual ballet of phone calls, letters and TV licence inspectors. Duncan Bennett has created an entire website devoted to his struggles with the TVLA. "I have not had a television for many years,"

It's not even annual it was every few months when I lived in England. I got tired of writing them letters but there is no way anyone was coming and looking round my house unless I want them to or they have a legal right.

The whole idea is a joke, "excuse me you dont have a tv licence, I know you have wrote us letters saying you don't but we think you are lying can we come in please and have a look around."

The poster who talked about a court order was right, it is limited to a time and because I was out of the house doing things I was never in when they came officially.

littledavesab

Nov 13 2009, 05:50 PM

QUOTE (Schaublin @ Nov 13 2009, 02:24 PM)

Do you mean videos? Where is Lynne Truss when you need her?

I am not sure if youtube counts - probably does

. BBC sport pages is a likely cause of trouble - if thats the case then for once I am not the guilty one.