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Healthy Money, Healthy Planet: Developing Sustainability through New Money Systems


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#1 Steve Netwriter

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Posted 14 January 2009 - 03:14 AM

Healthy Money, Healthy Planet: Developing Sustainability through New Money Systems by Kiwi author Deirdre Kent

I've just started reading Deirdre's book.

My first impression was one of great surprise at how much there is in the book, especially considering it was only $35 including postage.
There are so many great points made that I've had to start marking them so I can find them again later.

The preface is very interesting and shows how much experience Deirdre has.

I cannot recommend this book highly enough for anyone who wants to understand why the world economy is in the mess it is now in, and for anyone who wants to understand the greater issues of why the current money system is unsustainable and is incompatible with a finite planet.

I now realise that many of the discussions about why society seems to be getting worse failed to find the real basic cause. If you want to understand the real issue, this book will show you.

Maybe most interesting for anyone in NZ it also explains a lot about the NZ money system and why NZ is not doing better economically.

Reading this book will probably save you spending vastly more on Bernard Leitaer's excellent, but difficult to buy, book "The Future of Money".


Brief description of book:

QUOTE
Deirdre Kent is the author of Healthy Money, Healthy Planet: Developing Sustainability through New Money Systems that was published in 2005.

She claims our current financial crisis is not about toxic financial products or bad debts. We need to ask the more fundamental questions about how money is created in the first place. Why does every economist and politician claim we have to have economic growth? Deirdre has been crying out in the wilderness for a long time and the current domino effect of money problems around the world has been an unavoidable scenario in an unsustainable system based on constant growth of money and goods.






321 pages, and packed with facts. A real eye opener.

The book can be ordered for $35 (includes postage within New Zealand.) (you can pay direct into Helen's account)
Please contact Mrs Helen Dew, 12 Costley St, Carterton
Ph/Fax 06 379 8034. helend@contact.net.nz

http://www.le.org.nz/tiki-index.php

A radio interview recorded with Deirdre Kent and broadcast on 12 Nov 2008.
http://www.odeo.com/...-Crisisexternal link
Fiat: What starts becoming worth less eventually becomes worthless.

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#2 Steve Netwriter

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Posted 14 January 2009 - 03:16 AM

She lists a number of common claims, and gives a reply to each. This is one from page 84.

QUOTE
Claim: The 'extra' money to pay the interest on loans is generated through successful business ventures.

Answer:
The is a common belief, particularly held by people who never think about the design of money or the total money supply. Most people believe that there must be 'growth' to earn money to replay loans. This is the same as saying that we get money from economic activity, and that some of this money can be used to repay loans.
This is not true.
No economic activity has EVER created any money. The extra money in the system is actually the extra debt incurred when stressed borrowers are forced into further debt. If you re-read Chapter 1 you will remember that out of the ten families in the hypothetical example used, two could not find enough money to pay back their loans with interest. The money was just not in the system.


The point she makes is that money is only created when you take out debt. It is not created by profits.
Thus the only way to service the entire debt of the system is for that system to take out more debt.
Fiat: What starts becoming worth less eventually becomes worthless.

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#3 Gortat

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Posted 26 July 2009 - 09:30 PM

Great information from a great person. Thanks a lot for sharing this to us.

I need money that is why I was in this forum.

Great.



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#4 DrBubb

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Posted 27 July 2009 - 03:26 AM

She sounds anti-growth to me, but rather is badly muddled.

I do think it is helpful to include "mal-investment" as part of the discussion,
and to make an effort to define what that is, and why it should be avoided

Not everyone can agree, but right now it is a discussion that is barely happening
The market is "bipolar", swinging back and forth from a focus on Inflation to Deflation. Bet on swings; and stay flexible. What are bipolar markets? See: http://tinyurl.com/GEI-Manix

#5 Steve Netwriter

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Posted 27 July 2009 - 03:44 AM

QUOTE (Gortat @ Jul 27 2009, 09:30 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Great information from a great person. Thanks a lot for sharing this to us.

I need money that is why I was in this forum.

Great.



Pret immobilier


Hi Gortat, welcome to the forum biggrin.gif

If you like that, I would think you would also like this:

Bernard A. Lietaer - The Future of Money, A very good book relevant to a finite world
http://www.greenener...?showtopic=5083

If you can get a copy of the book (from the library), you should biggrin.gif

Fiat: What starts becoming worth less eventually becomes worthless.

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#6 DrBubb

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Posted 27 July 2009 - 04:04 AM

QUOTE (Steve Netwriter @ Jul 27 2009, 11:44 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Bernard A. Lietaer - The Future of Money, A very good book relevant to a finite world
http://www.greenener...?showtopic=5083

If you can get a copy of the book (from the library), you should biggrin.gif


Lietaar's arguments are more persuasive.

I listened to the whole thing, and right near the end, Dierdre started talking about how people who look after the elderly should be issued credits.

That strikes me as incredibly dangerous. How are you going to regulate that? Should someone who watched TV while granny sleeps upstairs, be given the same number of credits, as someone actively provides assistance to sick people. What are you going to do, hire a government bureaucrat to drive round and see how sick people are, and another to police against the inevitable corruptions of the first sort of bureaucrats?

And where do you stop with this system of issuing credits? Should you issue them to those who help old people across the street?

Even more importantly, who is going to pay for this expensive system? Are you going to raise taxes on the genuinely productive people. like those who produce food, to pay for the army of "good-workers"?

Thank gawd, people with ideas like Dierdre's are usually not taken seriously. They can quickly wreck a limping economy,
The market is "bipolar", swinging back and forth from a focus on Inflation to Deflation. Bet on swings; and stay flexible. What are bipolar markets? See: http://tinyurl.com/GEI-Manix

#7 Steve Netwriter

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Posted 27 July 2009 - 04:52 AM

QUOTE (DrBubb @ Jul 27 2009, 04:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Lietaar's arguments are more persuasive.

I listened to the whole thing, and right near the end, Dierdre started talking about how people who look after the elderly should be issued credits.

That strikes me as incredibly dangerous. How are you going to regulate that? Should someone who watched TV while granny sleeps upstairs, be given the same number of credits, as someone actively provides assistance to sick people. What are you going to do, hire a government bureaucrat to drive round and see how sick people are, and another to police against the inevitable corruptions of the first sort of bureaucrats?

And where do you stop with this system of issuing credits? Should you issue them to those who help old people across the street?

Even more importantly, who is going to pay for this expensive system? Are you going to raise taxes on the genuinely productive people. like those who produce food, to pay for the army of "good-workers"?

Thank gawd, people with ideas like Dierdre's are usually not taken seriously. They can quickly wreck a limping economy,


I think you are thinking global, and government.

I believe she is thinking local. Both authors believe in smaller local systems. You get a more robust whole if you have smaller less dependant parts.

Far from wrecking a limping economy I think they could save it. What stops an economy growing, excess debt and lack of money?
While trapped in the fiat money paradigm, the only solutions are in that cage. Break free of it and a whole world of possibilities become available.

Fiat: What starts becoming worth less eventually becomes worthless.

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#8 DrBubb

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Posted 27 July 2009 - 05:40 AM

QUOTE (Steve Netwriter @ Jul 27 2009, 12:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I think you are thinking global, and government.

I believe she is thinking local. Both authors believe in smaller local systems. You get a more robust whole if you have smaller less dependant parts.

Far from wrecking a limping economy I think they could save it. What stops an economy growing, excess debt and lack of money?
While trapped in the fiat money paradigm, the only solutions are in that cage. Break free of it and a whole world of possibilities become available.


Yes, but paying people to look after their own relatives since like a giant step backwards into discredited socialism.
Do we need to be paid to shoulder familial responsibilities ?
The market is "bipolar", swinging back and forth from a focus on Inflation to Deflation. Bet on swings; and stay flexible. What are bipolar markets? See: http://tinyurl.com/GEI-Manix




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