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Should I just ban some people ?


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#1 Steve Netwriter

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Posted 01 November 2008 - 11:59 PM

Personally I find posts by some just irritating.
Those that just attack other people & make stupid arguments.

I have avoided making mod decisions, but there comes a time......

I would not like to see this fine forum descend into the HPC nonesense.

I am very tempted to just press the ban button on WOL.

QUOTE (Wol @ Nov 2 2008, 06:37 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Are you for real?

CGNAO finds articles, highlights the bits that suit his belief system, posts them up with a scary headline and even scarier repetitiveness and he NEVER has to explain ANYTHING to gullible idiots ready to jump to conspiracy theories like these



at a nanosecond's notice.

ANYONE could do that. Even Gordon Brown had a try with "No more boom and bust". Stop being such a plank.


QUOTE (Wol @ Nov 2 2008, 08:02 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Is that supposed to be your Black Swan that proves me wrong? If so, it's pathetic.



That's pure rhetoric and has nothing to do with my post.

But I'll bite anyway.

Anyone could have beaten the return on gold in the last 12 months by keeping cash in their mattress (never mind Treasuries). In the last 6 months, I could have wiped my backside with $100 bills and still have beaten the return on gold.

Anyone with any brains -- as you point out -- has been selling shares. I can think of several hedge funds that have done very nicely out of the volatility.


QUOTE (Wol @ Nov 2 2008, 10:30 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Oh grow up.

Quite a few people foresaw the banking crisis. Some of them were remarkably precise and accurate about what was going to happen. Not only that, but they gave careful reasons and original analysis about why it was going to happen and took the trouble to explain it in lots of detail to folks who didn't see it. They presented their case -- and they continue to present their case -- without prejudice or arrogance.

I have plenty of respect for folks who do that, including DrBubb, Frizzers, No.6, GOM, ?...!, dstars, wrongmove, A.Steve and many others who consistently make intelligent and thought-provoking posts here and on "the other site" -- even if I don't agree with them.

On the other hand, plenty of posts are cut-and-paste highlights, present one side of a story, jump to conclusions, rely on conspiracy theories, exaggerate wildly, and manifest such deeply-held beliefs that it gives me the impression the poster would think nothing of proving black was white six times before breakfast.

Those posts aren't going to get any respect from me.


I would like this forum to remain respectful. And that means discussing points, and not attacking people.

Views ?

Do you find it temporarily entertaining, and you are OK with it, or would you like me to set say a 2 week ban on anyone posting abusive stuff, or would you like a permanent ban ?

I'll adjust my actions based on the general view.

Fiat: What starts becoming worth less eventually becomes worthless.

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#2 azazel

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Posted 02 November 2008 - 12:04 AM

I think he should take it as a warning.

#3 underling

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Posted 02 November 2008 - 12:19 AM


I would agree a warning is more appropriate.

Allow people to vex their anger aswell as their opinion. Anger is an emotion aswell as as love.

When it comes to purely insulting and confrontational then yes, by all means ............................. DO YOUR WORST!

If it aides your judgement, as a member and a regular visitor I find it quite easy to quickly scroll past such comments.

Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it.

#4 Johan van der Smut

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Posted 02 November 2008 - 12:24 AM

I don't find Wol's comments offensive. Direct, yes. Abrupt, yes. But also quite bracing. All part of the cut and thrust of debate, IMO.

#5 Jin

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Posted 02 November 2008 - 12:30 AM

I came to GEI to get away from these types of posts and really enjoy the reasoned posts from both sides of the big debate (inflation/deflation). They've really made me think about things in a broader way for which I am grateful.

Therefore I am really annoyed to see noisy, irrelevant troll-esque type posts with personal attacks. If I want that sort of thing I know where to find it.

#6 tl8177

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Posted 02 November 2008 - 12:35 AM

QUOTE (Jin @ Nov 2 2008, 12:30 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I came to GEI to get away from these types of posts and really enjoy the reasoned posts from both sides of the big debate (inflation/deflation). They've really made me think about things in a broader way for which I am grateful.

Therefore I am really annoyed to see noisy, irrelevant troll-esque type posts with personal attacks. If I want that sort of thing I know where to find it.


I agree

#7 Dispassion

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Posted 02 November 2008 - 12:47 AM

QUOTE (Steve Netwriter @ Nov 2 2008, 12:59 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Personally I find posts by some just irritating.
Those that just attack other people & make stupid arguments.

I have avoided making mod decisions, but there comes a time......

I would not like to see this fine forum descend into the HPC nonesense.

I am very tempted to just press the ban button on WOL.







I would like this forum to remain respectful. And that means discussing points, and not attacking people.

Views ?

Do you find it temporarily entertaining, and you are OK with it, or would you like me to set say a 2 week ban on anyone posting abusive stuff, or would you like a permanent ban ?

I'll adjust my actions based on the general view.


I think balance is very important and that we should respect all opinions, no matter how much they disagree with others, but I think there ought to be an element of reasoning to all posts and they should avoid insults and attempts at belittling views of others. A critique of the broad views of another member should be acceptable and productive, without turning into a personal battle. If anyone has views which are so strongly bound to their ego to take offence, then their opinions may not be subject to change in light of new evidence, which is a greater issue. I often see phrases like 'wake up' and 'open your eyes' which don't contribute anything and are counter-productive, in that they discourage less popular opinions.

If people disagree with others they should be able to present this in a polite way using reasoned arguments. The danger of banning people could be that unpopluar opinions are even less represented than they should be. The greatest danger we have is creating popular perspectives, that are skewed from reality.
"To be attached to a certain view and to look down upon others' views as inferior - this the wise men call a fetter." Sutta Nipata 798

#8 BHP Tinto

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Posted 02 November 2008 - 12:49 AM

Everyone is allowed their own opinion, however, there is no need to start slagging off other posters just because you don't agree or don't believe in what they are saying.

Personally I really enjoy Cgnao's posts, especially the graphs with dead cats all over them. Wol on the other hand has added nothing to my quest for learning about this financial crisis or hard asset investing. All he has done is to put others down which is not what this forum is about.

2 weeks suspension as a warning!!


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#9 Cuthbert Calculus

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Posted 02 November 2008 - 12:53 AM

Without having read any posts, don't do anything.

If he's a troll, he'll get bored and move on. If he's not then he'll contribute in some way.

If you start interfering with people's posts you just inflame everything. Look at what happened with The Oldie's moderating on HPC. Think libertarian, not govt control. Cgnao is perfectly capable of looking after himself.

#10 cgnao

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Posted 02 November 2008 - 12:56 AM

Just ignore him. He is an irrelevant troll.
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#11 whoops_apocalypse

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Posted 02 November 2008 - 01:03 AM

Although I'm in sympathy with some of WOL's views, I don't see the need to attack others for theirs just because they don't happen to coincide with mine. Personally speaking, I'm far more interested in what's going to take place from now on than raking over old subjective ground.

WOL, Gold is up on a yearly basis in terms of Sterling and Euros I do believe, so even you're not strictly correct on this occasion it has to be said whilst bearing in mind that not everyone on this forum is from the US which merely serves to illustrate that nobody really knows exactly what's going on and to those that claim otherwise e.g. cgnao, et al. may be fuller explanations would be better appreciated?

And I would have to agree with WOL about one thing in particular, that it does get somewhat tedious seeing the works of widely respected others being constantly copied and pasted on this forum by posters who seem at times to be claiming it to be their own or at least that's the impression one gets when reading certain members posts.

Let's remain as little Fonzies and try collectively to fathom out what the heck's gonna happen next if at all possible I'd say and cut out the "I'm a guru don't you know?" nonsense, 'cos I sure as hell ain't seen anyone that can predict the future with 100% accuracy round here or anywhere else for that matter...

#12 underling

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Posted 02 November 2008 - 01:32 AM


annoying ................. yes

disrespectful ..................... indeed

The poster may now be feeling remorse (I doubt, but it is a possibility) and must be surely at least be given the chance to put his/her opinion forward in a more appropriate way before a blanket ban hence my suggestion that a warning is more appropriate.


Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it.

#13 Dubai

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Posted 02 November 2008 - 05:03 AM

QUOTE (Jin @ Nov 2 2008, 01:30 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I came to GEI to get away from these types of posts and really enjoy the reasoned posts from both sides of the big debate (inflation/deflation). They've really made me think about things in a broader way for which I am grateful.

Therefore I am really annoyed to see noisy, irrelevant troll-esque type posts with personal attacks. If I want that sort of thing I know where to find it.


I came to GEI to get away from the knee-jerk censorship on HPC (although I still go there..) The Gold Thread fiasco should be a lesson to us all. "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"

If the mods here start behaving the way they did on HPC, it will be the death of this site. 100% correct, guaranteed.


QUOTE (Cuthbert Calculus @ Nov 2 2008, 01:53 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Without having read any posts, don't do anything.

If he's a troll, he'll get bored and move on. If he's not then he'll contribute in some way.

If you start interfering with people's posts you just inflame everything. Look at what happened with The Oldie's moderating on HPC. Think libertarian, not govt control. Cgnao is perfectly capable of looking after himself.


100% correct...

I love Cgnaos posts.... the "offender" obviously doesn't. Big deal......


#14 Steve Netwriter

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Posted 02 November 2008 - 05:07 AM

You can see how difficult a mod task is just by viewing the many varied views so far.

So far, luckily, I haven't felt the need to do anything, but I can see the busier this forum gets, the more difficult it's going to be to satisfy everyone.

Just to reassure, there is no way I would ever consider any form of censorship just because someone has a different point of view with someone else.
Basically, freedom of speech, but with respect.
I am watchful of any form of badgering or overly disrespectful behaviour.

I must ask, can you guys see the warning levels ?
I'm not sure how that system works. It might be a simple solution. Each time I see something inappropriate I could just click on "warn", and after a number of them, some temporary ban would be set.

Fiat: What starts becoming worth less eventually becomes worthless.

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#15 Dubai

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Posted 02 November 2008 - 05:15 AM

Steve,

you can't please all of the people all of the time..... fact.

If I were you I'd set some guidelines for what constitutes "abuse". But set them for grown ups, not babies.




#16 Ologhai Jones

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Posted 02 November 2008 - 06:26 AM

QUOTE (Dubai @ Nov 2 2008, 05:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"


I don't believe that the mature, liberalism of defending the right of others to express their views should necessarily include respect for their disrespect or tolerance for their intolerance.

By resorting to insulting and ridiculing, a person is effectively attempting a form of censorship by bullying the opposition into silence.

It seems to me that bullying, ridiculing and insulting is 'stealth censorship' -- kind of like the way that inflation is a stealth taxation.

QUOTE (Dubai @ Nov 2 2008, 05:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
If the mods here start behaving the way they did on HPC, it will be the death of this site. 100% correct, guaranteed.


I think there's a huge grey area between stamping out intolerance and disrespect and just banning people who say 'gold' or just generally disagree with the mods. Some form of warning/suspension/banning process does not automatically make this place into HPC (and, indeed, may stop it turning into HPC).

HPC can be (or perhaps has been) less than ideal because BOTH the trolls AND the mods are typically allowed to run amok.

The fact that Steve is asking reassures me about the latter, and that he's asking about the former is also a comfort... wink.gif

To reiterate, my view would be:
  • Respect for everything but disrespect.
  • Tolerance for everything but intolerance.


#17 wren

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Posted 02 November 2008 - 06:43 AM

I haven't read the whole thread. I think suppression of opinion is extremely bad and might destroy this place as a decent discussion board.
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#18 goldenbee

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Posted 02 November 2008 - 07:27 AM

May be it would be useful to clarify the standards of etiquette expected and pin them on the forum. Then you may issue a private/public warning whilst referring to said standards.

gb

#19 halcyon

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Posted 02 November 2008 - 08:29 AM

I'm merely a newcomer, so take this for what its worth.

Trading and financing forums often have outspoken, rude and flame-ridden posters. Usually, not always, but usually there is very little gained by reading their posts.

Most of the times they slam people into the ground and raise the threshold of participation. That is, they often kill conversation without actually contributing to it in meaningful terms.

So, in cases like these, my vote would be to warn and then ban.

And yes, even the best of posters can have bad days, but they usually apologize and self-correct their behavior. Very rarely is banning needed for them.

The tricky thing is where does one actually draw the line in non-constructive and rude behavior. For that I have no answer. It's the mod's responsibility to draw the line.

“We are trying to prove ourselves wrong as quickly as possible, because only in that way can we find progress.” - Richard Feynman

#20 Steve Netwriter

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Posted 02 November 2008 - 09:05 AM

I have noticed that the posts I quoted resulted in some extremely interesting replies.
So in this case as far as I'm concerned, some good came out of "whatever you call it".

Please, lets not make this a big deal.
I'm happily sitting on my hands, although I am mindful of those who have posted concerns about "unwelcome posts".

There is a post report system, so anyone is free to make a post known to the mods for review.

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