Australia vs UK -- should I move?, GF may need to make a decision. Options

[romans holiday]

I get your point. But thanks for your remarks anyway.

In Canberra I could rent a nice house with garden/patio in a local 'village', and still it would only take 30min or less by bike to work. So, my very own car usage could go down dramatically. Sidney is 'only' a 3h drive away, so, I could spend a weekend there (or on the coast) every now and then. My biggest fear is the distance to Europe/the US and the price explosion in fuel/oil. As you mention, skype etc. can help, but it is not the real thing. It's really my greatest worry there.

Great sailing culture in both Aussie and NZ.

[wren]

I can't say I know much about Australia, but one big issue is water, as some of the others have said.

If it turns out that you don't like it, would you be able to move back quite easily, and, say, get a job you want back in the UK?

One new poster at hpc wrote a post on this topic today. He went to Perth and did not like it so much and says many expats are like that. Here's his post:
http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/ind...p;#entry1173400

[drminky]

Hey GF, I am from Australia originally, although now i live in the UK. So I've kind of done the opposite to what you are thinking. I've also lived in NZ for a while, nice place, but that's not an option for you right now, so I'll leave that alone.

So many topics to cover, but here's some things to consider:

Taxes: Much the same in the end as the UK, although the big difference is that in Australia your TV license is included in your income tax, the state schools are actually really good (most of them), so there's no need to go private, and the public health care system is usually enough to not need to go private. Also, landlords pay the council tax in Australia, which helps if you are renting.. And rented houses tend to come unfurnished, so be prepared to spend some hard time at your local ikea!

Family: Got family in Australia at all? Helps a lot to have some. I've none here in the uk anymore, and it can get lonely, especially around christmas, when london becomes like a ghost town. Less lonely if you have a family of your own..

Work: Personally, i find the UK is better for working conditions. The Australians work long hours and are expected to work a hard slog - at least in my industry. If you are in the public sector, its going to be completely different to my experience. The out-of-work quality of life is perhaps where australia pulls ahead.

Lifestyle: Each has it pluses and minuses. Depends what you are after. Australia is great if you are sporty and/or love the great outdoors. Canberra is handy to Australia's (admittedly rather pitiful and expensive, but still functional) ski resorts, and great wine country. Melbourne and Sydney are not too far away (by Australian standards), but you would not exactly be near the beach. Australia loses out on Culture and on travel. You are really stuck out in the middle of nowhere. But if a tropical island in the pacific is your ideal holiday, then its a handy place to be.

Canberra: Be aware Canberra can get quite cold in the winter. Might not be as cold as England in absolute terms, but as you are acclimatised to warmer weather in general, believe me, you feel it! Also, in Australia, Canberra is referred to as 'fat cat city'. Its where our politicians spend their time, so things like public transport are heavily subsidised unlike anywhere else in the country, so that's a nice bonus. Never lived there myself, but the place has a reputation of being a little soulless and boring, however the people make up for it by being a lively bunch.

My advice would be to dip your toes in slowly if you decide to go. Its pretty easy to reverse a decision and pick up your life where you left it in the uk if you decide its not for you, in the first 3 years or so.. Bit more complicated if you've got kids and schooling to consider, but they're kids - they manage. And a different experience of life is a great gift to give to your children - even if they don't appreciate it right away!

hope that helps.. any specific questions you want to ask?

[Ker]

What are the main advantages and disadvantages of living in Australia?

I always dreamed to live in Australia or New Zealand, but then I found a problem (at least it is for me). The ozone hole at the south pole allows sun rays to get on people directly without any protection, so cancer cases in theese contries are much higher. If you are black or brown skin, maybe this not a problem, but with white skin (and worse if in your genetic code there is long living genes, i.e, people in your family live up to 80-90 years), then it is risky to live there for you.
Dont you like Hong Kong?

[Diet Cola Addict]

I nearly moved to Oz in 2006 (Perth). Here’s my experience of "not emigrating":

I had a good friend who decided to quit her rat-race job in London and emigrate for the “lifestyle and climate” of Oz. I accompanied her to a recruitment fair at the Australian embassy one afternoon in 2005. The place was saturated with expensively-suited IT experts, of which my friend was one, all flashing their CVs and trying too hard to get attention at the employer and state government stalls.

I was a bit scruffily dressed, had no CV and had made no preparations; I was expecting to kick my heels all afternoon, just being there for moral support. Anyway, it turned out that my profession (clinical scientist) was near the top of the Oz government’s “highly in demand” list and I ended up having the stall representatives queuing up to speak to me, much to the irritation of my friend and other attendees.

Within a couple of months, I got three job offers from different hospitals with state-sponsored work visas, without even the request for an interview. The hospitals then started calling me up at work to enquire of my commitment, letting the cat out of the bag.

I chose Perth and was very close to signing up when an unusual job was advertised in the UK. It was novel, challenging, exciting and a real chance to do something meaningful with my skills, but a long shot. The long shot worked, I got the job and stayed in the UK.

What happened to me?
I moved for the job and I have now lived in Milton Keynes for two years. The job remains a real opportunity, but its very hard work and a career risk if I don’t make it deliver over the next year or so. The exciting aspect has worn off as it has taken over my work-life balance. Working long hours in Milton Keynes is not an exciting way to be a single young professional in the UK. I will probably re-apply for an emigration visa if the next year doesn’t work out.

My friend?
She moved to Sydney. She got a nice tan and went running everyday after work along the famous harbour. But the job was office-based IT, and she ended up socializing with the office crowd and commuting in from the suburbs. She said there was little difference to her life in the UK, except perhaps for holidays during her annual leave. She has since returned to the UK.

My message?
Give things a try; it’s always better to have ‘loved and lost’ than to never have ‘loved’ in the first place. You can come back if it isn’t what you hoped. But when you make a big change in your life, make sure that the lifestyle or career progression you crave is actually obtainable – the world is increasingly global and it may just be more of the same.

[G0ldfinger]

Great input by all of you. I appreciate it very much to have that many opinions on this topic. I guess I will take Steven's test later. I am busy now, but may answer in more detail to some aspects later. But two things: sunshine is not the top priority (more quality of working and living). Hong Kong has been mentioned. It could become of some interest, but not at the moment.

I know, it's quite random, but I read up on the scary spiders:

Every property has a redback (not too bad) but white tails seemed to be everywhere, 2-3 a week in our house and they are a problem, worst case scenario amputation.

This seems to be a myth:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White-tailed_spider

The bite of the white tail has been wrongly implicated in cases of arachnogenic necrosis. The misassociation stems from a paper presented at the International Society on Toxinology World Congress held in Brisbane in 1982. Both the white tail and the wolf spider were considered as candidates for possibly causing suspected spider bite necrosis, though it later turned that the recluse spider was the culprit in the reported cases from Brazil.

[G0ldfinger]

...
One new poster at hpc wrote a post on this topic today. He went to Perth and did not like it so much and says many expats are like that. Here's his post:
http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/ind...p;#entry1173400

Here is that post:

Firstly hello to all, I am new to this forum and this is my first post. Anyway, as most of the people leaving the UK go to Oz i thought i would contribute. I emirgrated to Oz (Perth) last year and hoped that i would be living the Australian dream after watching this country go down the pan with youth crime, drugs, immigration and general feeling that being British does not count for much anymore. So off i went and after 2 months of sun, sea and sand began to miss the UK, you see Perth is a beautiful place if you like constant sunshine and the sea but believe me it wears a bit thin after a while and blimey is it boring. Then there's the shops all owned by a few companies that sells cheap crappy imports from China. There is no choice in WA as its operates like a seperate country. It is very expensive and wages compared are a lot lower there so the standard of living is much more expensive as everyday items are not cheap i.e. mars bar about £1. You pay for everything, no NH but a Medicare system where you pay and then get rebates, but most people have private healthcare, it's a very american sytem. Houses generally are built in the middle of no-where with no infustructure to deal with growing populations.

The problem is though that when people go over to Oz they take all their cash and naturally want to settle and fit in so within days they have bought a brand new car and within a couple of months a house. But being in the holiday mode it seems all ok then of course the boredom starts, you start missing family, friends and yes, the rain. But because they are tied up financially they keep on trying to believe that its really great place to be and yes it is but most people i knew had second jobs to make up the money, so having a lay-in on the weekend forget it the noise soon wakes you up, but your probably be at work anyway!

I knew quite a few families and although they dont admit it out loud they do admit it (reading between the lines) that they should not of put their eggs in one basket and not of got so bogged down, financially.

So, what has this post got to do with the UK well as I said it can be a great place and some people do generally like it but they are normally younger people, with not many ties and no family in toe. If you are thinking of going to Oz then its a good time as the boom in property is over and bargains are to be had but a word of warning, rent (expensive) at least for 6 months and resist buying as you may be a lot worse off than UK sellers are now. I got to say though that Oz give $7k rebate to first time buyers and no stamp duty, what does the UK government do? money grabbing gits who continue to undermine the hard workers of this country when most families are struggling, it's a bloody disgrace but the UK with all it's faults still is home and sometimes the grass isn't that green elsewhere and although theres a lot of people leaving, theres a lot cominig back, you just dont here about it in the media.

[warpig]

GF your last post echos my sentiments exactly. Very nearly 6 of 1 .... It is what you make it, however there is one thing I haven't said to date and that is if we hadn't gone I would have regretted it to this day. I think my overall stance on this would be, if you want to go and have a look, if it gets you excited thinking about a new life after reading the comments here then go.

As per the spider comment, this IMO is nonesense. Go there, watch the TV, hear the people on TV explain what happened and look at their wounds. I think this is akin to finding a dentist that believes that wisdom teeth have the force to move your other teeth around, they just will not believe it until it's proven to them, I am contrary proof of this myth!

[G0ldfinger]

I am an ex-pat in the UK (I am European). My wife is American. So, moving is not new to us, but we have neither family nor friends in Australia. Everyone would be away half around the globe suddenly. Take this and a price spike in air fairs. That is my major concern.

[G0ldfinger]

... I am contrary proof of this myth!

Sorry to hear this.

[warpig]

Oh dear what must you think my mouth looks like... I had braces for years, I had 12 extra teeth, yup 44 in total, they now aren't as straight as they used to be, nothing disfiguring.... honest.

BTW isn't England in Europe?

Sorry to hear this.

[drminky]

I am an ex-pat in the UK (I am European). My wife is American. So, moving is not new to us, but we have neither family nor friends in Australia. Everyone would be away half around the globe suddenly. Take this and a price spike in air fairs. That is my major concern.

Ahh GF, you of all people! That's why we save in gold! Price of oil (hence airfares) will be much more stable in gold than it will in dollars or turdling. Peak oil may change that relationship somewhat, but its better than nothing! As i live half a globe away from my family and friends, this is my insurance.. A few ounces should always see you home if push comes to shove!

[G0ldfinger]

... BTW isn't England in Europe?

Not for Brits.

Ahh GF, you of all people! That's why we save in gold! Price of oil (hence airfares) will be much more stable in gold than it will in dollars or turdling. Peak oil may change that relationship somewhat, but its better than nothing! As i live half a globe away from my family and friends, this is my insurance.. A few ounces should always see you home if push comes to shove!

The question is, am I willing to spend 24h in the air and a few oz gold for each visit? Maybe not.

[id5]

...
As per the spider comment, this IMO is nonesense. Go there, watch the TV, hear the people on TV explain what happened and look at their wounds. I think this is akin to finding a dentist that believes that wisdom teeth have the force to move your other teeth around, they just will not believe it until it's proven to them, I am contrary proof of this myth!

I was bit at the base of the spine whilst I was out there, I didn't even feel the bite so I have no idea what bit me. It did not heal until last year, so I had it for five years. The wound was only 2 or 3mm across, never bled and wept as much as a small cut with the scab picked off. The doctor said that it must scab over and I must have be picking the scab of absently minded fashion, I said that I think someone would have noticed if I kept on shoving my hand down the back of my pants to pick it at work. Ah! You must be doing it at night in your sleep then he said, either way he would not have a sample of the fluid sent away to check for clotting factors. I know of another guy out there with something similar on his arm.

Don’t be put off by the wild life out there though. You are not edible and it will only threaten or bite you in order to escape. Leave it alone and it leaves you alone. We had all sorts on the acreage we rented, which was on the outer northern edge of Sydney, red backs, white tails, brown snakes, red bellied blacks, the biggest bull ants I have ever seen. We also had Huntsman spiders, goodies that eat all the other spiders, Kookaburras that eat the snakes, lizards that eat the ants. In the city I saw nothing as the majority had already been poisoned.

[id5]

Here is that post:

There are a lot of ex-pats that are financially stuck there but hate to say it, some see going back as failure. They all assume that the cost of living is less as the things that hit you in the face like food are cheaper. They spend as they would in the UK but forget that the wages are 2/3's of the UK. Before they know it their lack of Money Management has bit them and they do not have enough equity to sell up, ship things back, fly back and put a deposit on something in the UK, be it even rent. But they are living the dream, aren’t they....

[HollandPark]

An Aussie has put "his life" up for sale:
http://www.greenenergyinvestors.com/index.php?showtopic=3445

[G0ldfinger]

An Aussie has put "his life" up for sale:
http://www.greenenergyinvestors.com/index.php?showtopic=3445

Link does not work.

[DrBubb]

Link does not work.

?: it did for me:
A LIFE : what's it worth ?

A heartbroken aussie has but "his life" up for sale.

LIFE - http://www.ALife4Sale.com : http://www.ALife4Sale.com.au

The "Life" includes a 3BR house in Perth, a trial for his job selling rugs...
His car, motorbike, clothes ... "and even his friends"

[Crazy88s]

One positive or so someone who is emigrating to Oz tells me is that you can move your private pension to Australia and after a qualifying perioid (3 or 5 years cant remember) you can when you retire take the entire amount tax free, in the UK you can only take 25% as a cash lump sum.

It might be worth moving there for me when I retire. I am 40 now and would not consider going there to work, I had a few years in the states and had my chance then, eventually as you get older you get entrenced in the UK.

[Saberu]

+ I can afford a house with a garden, and actually use the garden
I can't, not in Sydney anywhere east of Strathfield without a crippling mortgage at least. I am hoping that will change within a few years Have a look on http://www.domain.com.au or http://www.realestate.com.au

Adelaide isn't that expensive and it's on the coast, I suppose that doesn't help GF though as he is going to Canberra. I here Canberra gets stupidly hot in the summer- ~40 degrees so I hope you can stand it.