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#1 Steve Netwriter

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Posted 16 May 2008 - 04:24 AM

wren comments made me think about this. I know there are those who think this is just crazy talk. Survivalists, ha, idiots !
Well, the probability may be small, but the consequences would be dire. And for those living in a country prone to earthquakes we are often warned to set up a survival kit so we can get by if the worst happens, because for the first few days there may not be anyone available to help.

As you can see from what happened in China recently, having at least enough food and water to survive for a while is potentially life saving.

So this covers two potential risks, earthquakes, and economic problems leading to food shortages etc.

I've had an interesting time looking for food items.

I think things to look for are:
1. Things you'd normally eat, so they won't be wasted when they get close to expiring.
2. Things that have a long shelf life.
3. Things that would survive an earthquake. Like tins.
4. A variety of foods. Meat, vegetables, fruit, carbohydrates, nuts, vitamins/minerals etc.
5. Things that don't need cooking, so you can eat those at the start until you're better set up.

Here are some things we've bought:

Tins of Tuna, Soup (with meat), Spaghetti, Baked Beans:


Tins of Tomatoes and Beetroot:


Tins of Pears, Pineapple, Peaches, Rice Pudding:


Marmite:


Nuts:


Cola (which is also very good if you get food poisoning - just flatten it before drinking):


Spaghetti:


Oats and Rise:


What do you think ?
Your suggestions would be welcome.
I'll add to this as I add things to the kit.

An obvious question is, how much and in what proportions would a family need ?

Fiat: What starts becoming worth less eventually becomes worthless.

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#2 wren

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Posted 16 May 2008 - 09:38 AM

QUOTE (Steve Netwriter @ May 16 2008, 07:24 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
What do you think ?
Your suggestions would be welcome.
I'll add to this as I add things to the kit.

An obvious question is, how much and in what proportions would a family need ?

A food storage calculator for families:
http://lds.about.com...lcalculator.htm
(I just assume 2000 calories a day per adult, as I'm single).

A couple of threads on this at peakoil.com. A recent one:
http://www.peakoil.c...topic39690.html
And their main one on food storage (25 pages, I haven't read it yet):
http://www.peakoil.c...ortopic106.html

Even without major disasters a simple truckers' strike can mean shops are running out of stuff within a week (especially if people panic buy). So you don't need to be a survival nut to make sensible storage plans.

You should worry about water also.

An electricity power cut can mean the water pressure goes down and then off within 24 hours. So some means to stock enough drinking and cooking water for at least a few days is important.

I'm planning to make a stock of food and hygiene products sufficient for at least 6 months, although I'll build it up slowly over a few months (just some extra stuff every week).

For water all I can do is a few days worth.

Does New Zealand get earthquakes?
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Video at guardian.co.uk: Gold for Food in Zimbabwe.
Video at YouTube: Buying groceries with silver in California.
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#3 Steve Netwriter

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Posted 16 May 2008 - 10:52 AM

Thanks wren. Lots more for me to read biggrin.gif
And more to think about.

You're kidding about earthquakes right ? biggrin.gif

NZ is on a major tectonic fault. The shaky isle.
This gives you an idea:





blink.gif

At least down here in Christchurch we're not sat on a volcano like Auckland, or on 4x faults like in Wellington blink.gif blink.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif
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#4 wren

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Posted 16 May 2008 - 11:27 AM

QUOTE (Steve Netwriter @ May 16 2008, 01:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
At least down here in Christchurch we're not sat on a volcano like Auckland, or on 4x faults like in Wellington blink.gif blink.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif

Yeah, when I thought about it being in the South Pacific. But I don't remember news reports of bad earthquake disasters from New Zealand. unsure.gif
Looks quite bad from that map, though. So it makes sense to fully be prepared in New Zealand even without economic worries.
Gold and financial news: 24knews
Video at guardian.co.uk: Gold for Food in Zimbabwe.
Video at YouTube: Buying groceries with silver in California.
Energy Bulletin A daily news site about oil, natural gas, food, transportation and their economic and social ramifications.

#5 enrieb

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Posted 17 May 2008 - 05:05 PM

Peter Schiff has also been talking about stocking up on supplies as a way to protect from inflation. Last year I spent a few hundred pounds in a cash and carry buying essential everyday items that take up small amounts of space. Its been a good investment so far, having this stuff stock piled means I don't have to pay over the odds at a local shop if I were to run out, and I don't have to go into a super market just to buy a tube of toothpaste which usually results in me spending more cash on things I don't need.

Since I stock piled these items I find I don't have to go shopping anywhere near as much and when I do the final bill is much lower because I already have the high value items at home. Buying in bulk also gave me a much better price on these goods.


soap
toothpaste
shaving foam razors
washing up powder
shampoo

I do the same with some food items, I have about 100 tins of tuna stashed away, not because I am expecting a nuclear war, its just that I want to protect my wealth from price spikes caused by shortages that could be due to the uncertainty ahead in term of geo-politics, energy, climate, industrial action and the economy. I started to plan a more financially independent lifestyle last year and installed a solid fuel burner to lower my gas bills. I also began making home made wine and beer which has been very successful and I am planning on growing some food later this year. I think I will get a bread making machine and ingredients as when ever people hear about a potential oil price spike or sever weather threat they always buy all the bread at the supermarkets.

Dried peas
Dried beans
Bread making ingredients
Powdered milk
Tuna tins
Tin opener
Basic tools or multi tool
Firelighters, matches, lighters
Water purification tablets/ Hydrogen peroxide (oxy plus)
Torch/radio wind up
Vitamins
First aid kit
Beer and wine making kits
Seeds for various garden vegetables
coal

#6 Commander T

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Posted 18 May 2008 - 12:16 AM

[attachment=304:tin_foil_hat_crew.jpg]

Dont forget the tinfoil hat ! = Have insurance, hope you never need it.

^ My words do not constitute financial advice, please do your own research.

 

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#7 Commander T

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Posted 18 May 2008 - 12:18 AM

I ll add; air riffle / cross bow - useful for hunting for food, and lessens the need for refrigeration / worries over long term food storage [which could fail too].

^ My words do not constitute financial advice, please do your own research.

 

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#8 Steve Netwriter

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Posted 18 May 2008 - 01:37 AM

QUOTE (notanewmeber @ May 18 2008, 12:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
[attachment=304:tin_foil_hat_crew.jpg]

Dont forget the tinfoil hat ! = Have insurance, hope you never need it.


What a brilliant picture biggrin.gif biggrin.gif

It's actually quite apt for where we live blink.gif
The Canterbury plain is rather flat, and there are hills to 'run to' unsure.gif

I'm going to be acting on all the info so far on this thread biggrin.gif

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#9 DrBubb

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Posted 18 May 2008 - 01:37 AM

How long can you store canned foods?

My partner studued physics at Oxford, and thinks she knows something of food.
She refuses to eat canned foods, but I reckon she would change her mind if she was starving

By the way, my first very bad attack of gout came after eating a can of spinach- never again

QUOTE (notanewmeber @ May 18 2008, 01:16 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
[attachment=304:tin_foil_hat_crew.jpg]
Dont forget the tinfoil hat ! = Have insurance, hope you never need it.


The GlobalEdgers will be surfing that wave !

The market is "bipolar", swinging back and forth from a focus on Inflation to Deflation. Bet on swings; and stay flexible. What are bipolar markets? See: http://tinyurl.com/GEI-Manix

#10 Steve Netwriter

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Posted 18 May 2008 - 04:30 AM

QUOTE (DrBubb @ May 18 2008, 01:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
How long can you store canned foods?

My partner studued physics at Oxford, and thinks she knows something of food.
She refuses to eat canned foods, but I reckon she would change her mind if she was starving

By the way, my first very bad attack of gout came after eating a can of spinach- never again



The GlobalEdgers will be surfing that wave !


It was a slightly surreal experience walking around the supermarket as normal, but instead of doing the normal shopping, looking for only survival products.
Looking for things that can be eaten without heating, that have either long use by dates or none at all.
I noticed with interest that the tinned things were I think the only things with no use by date. So I think the answer is "a very long time".
And my intention is to try to buy things we'd normally buy and so gradually update them. Most things should last at least 2 years, so plenty of time.

It was also interesting doing this while seeing people going about their usual weekly shop.

We're currently up in goldbug territory, but are moving slightly towards the Tin Foil Hat Crew hill biggrin.gif

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#11 Commander T

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Posted 18 May 2008 - 02:43 PM

I remember tinned foods run the risk of developing bacterial secretions/poisons - botulism



Please read http://www.ext.colos...dnut/09305.html


Before using home-canned food, critically examine the product and container. A bulging lid or leaking jar are signs of spoilage. When you open the jar, look for other signs of spoilage such as spurting liquid, an off odor or mold.

^ My words do not constitute financial advice, please do your own research.

 

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#12 Commander T

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Posted 18 May 2008 - 02:46 PM

I ll add fishing line - if you cant get work/unemployed, useful to pass the time.

I know an old man who still works part time as a cleaner, does not have a lot of income or pension, and spends the rest of his time fishing and saves a lot on his food bill that way.

^ My words do not constitute financial advice, please do your own research.

 

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#13 No6

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Posted 18 May 2008 - 07:08 PM

I suppose having a survival kit depends on where you live or your outlook on life. If you live in a place that is prone to natural disasters then it makes sense, assuming you can afford it, to have a stockpile of food to help you get through it if it happens. Not sure about the survivalist approach in the event of economic or social breakdown. If this were to happen and you have got something that others want, it is best that you keep it to yourself.

However, it does make sense to have a stockpile of some essentials. I was in my local Tesco the other day and saw that they had their own brand sardines at 17p a can and tuna at 37p (but the price moves between 31 and 37). Now, these may not be to everyone's taste but there is 20g of protein in the sardines and about 35g in the tuna. One each of these a day, in the event of an emergency will keep you alive, at least in terms of giving you enough protein to get by on. A hundred tins of each would cost you about £50 and give you about 3 months supply. As for the essentials, you can always stock powdered milk (this assumes a supply of water is available)and instead of bread, biscuits.

#14 dooferdog

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Posted 20 May 2008 - 08:31 AM

QUOTE (Steve Netwriter @ May 16 2008, 05:24 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Marmite:



NOOOO. Not even if I was dying.

#15 wren

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Posted 20 May 2008 - 09:33 AM

QUOTE (enrieb @ May 17 2008, 08:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
soap
toothpaste
shaving foam razors
washing up powder
shampoo

I also began making home made wine and beer which has been very successful and I am planning on growing some food later this year. I think I will get a bread making machine and ingredients as when ever people hear about a potential oil price spike or sever weather threat they always buy all the bread at the supermarkets.

Dried peas
Dried beans
Bread making ingredients
Powdered milk
Tuna tins
Tin opener
Basic tools or multi tool
Firelighters, matches, lighters
Water purification tablets/ Hydrogen peroxide (oxy plus)
Torch/radio wind up
Vitamins
First aid kit
Beer and wine making kits
Seeds for various garden vegetables
coal

Toilet paper! Don't forget toilet paper. The summer before last we had a pulp-mill strike and by week 3 toilet paper of good quality was getting a bit precious. They even started importing it, here to the land of forest and paper!

(Talking about shortages in Finland, here's a funny one. Several years ago in December there was a shortage of Christmas trees! They had to import them from Holland! laugh.gif
Finland is 76% forest, mostly conifers, but the small farmers didn't bother harvesting enough Christmas trees as in previous years as the prices were so poor.)

A few years ago I learnt how to bake my own bread. Easy, cheap and tasty when it's fresh out of the oven with margarine. Margarine is another thing which can be stored fairly long-term and is packed with calories, as it's mostly fat.

Bisciuts are also jam-packed with calories, being basically fat and carbohydrate.

One foodstuff which has not increased so much in price here is sugar. So that's another one to stock up on as a hedge against inflation (no use-by date on the pack, I guess it keeps so long as it's dry.)
Gold and financial news: 24knews
Video at guardian.co.uk: Gold for Food in Zimbabwe.
Video at YouTube: Buying groceries with silver in California.
Energy Bulletin A daily news site about oil, natural gas, food, transportation and their economic and social ramifications.

#16 Steve Netwriter

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Posted 20 May 2008 - 11:01 AM

QUOTE (Gatesy @ May 20 2008, 08:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
NOOOO. Not even if I was dying.


I knew someone would say that laugh.gif


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#17 wren

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Posted 20 May 2008 - 11:45 AM

QUOTE (Steve Netwriter @ May 20 2008, 02:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I knew someone would say that laugh.gif

In Finland there are some English guys who would kill for jar of marmite! biggrin.gif
(Almost impossible to find in the shops.)

Gold and financial news: 24knews
Video at guardian.co.uk: Gold for Food in Zimbabwe.
Video at YouTube: Buying groceries with silver in California.
Energy Bulletin A daily news site about oil, natural gas, food, transportation and their economic and social ramifications.

#18 enrieb

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Posted 20 May 2008 - 12:21 PM

QUOTE (No6 @ May 18 2008, 08:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I suppose having a survival kit depends on where you live or your outlook on life. If you live in a place that is prone to natural disasters then it makes sense, assuming you can afford it, to have a stockpile of food to help you get through it if it happens. Not sure about the survivalist approach in the event of economic or social breakdown. If this were to happen and you have got something that others want, it is best that you keep it to yourself.


I remember the UK fuel protests in 2000 and the way a simple blockade of a several fuel installations basically shut the country down. Since 2000 the UK become far more dependent on the petroleum infrastructure, almost everybody I know now has at least one car, the local shops have mostly disappeared, even small local supermarkets and hardware stores have been closed in favor of edge of town giant superstores that are only accessible by people with cars.

This just in time delivery system of minimal inventory is like driving a car without a spare wheel, it works perfectly until you blow out a tyre. How long would the stocks would last at a local shop in the event of a prolonged fuel strike, power cut or disruption to the water supply?

In see the lorry drivers and fuel infrastructure workers as the people who have real effective power over the government. They have the ability to shut the country down in the way that the miners could during the 70s. The thing I wonder is will a future government have to take on the lorry drivers in the way that the conservatives took on the miners in the 80s. I think that the public will have more empathy with the lorry drivers as they share their addiction to cheap oil.

Tin foil hats? best get em now, the price of tin will continue to rise along with the rest of the metals. I have my special sun-glasses to help shield my eyes from the propaganda.




#19 Steve Netwriter

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Posted 20 May 2008 - 09:20 PM

QUOTE (enrieb @ May 21 2008, 01:21 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I remember the UK fuel protests in 2000 and the way a simple blockade of a several fuel installations basically shut the country down. Since 2000 the UK become far more dependent on the petroleum infrastructure, almost everybody I know now has at least one car, the local shops have mostly disappeared, even small local supermarkets and hardware stores have been closed in favor of edge of town giant superstores that are only accessible by people with cars.

This just in time delivery system of minimal inventory is like driving a car without a spare wheel, it works perfectly until you blow out a tyre. How long would the stocks would last at a local shop in the event of a prolonged fuel strike, power cut or disruption to the water supply?

In see the lorry drivers and fuel infrastructure workers as the people who have real effective power over the government. They have the ability to shut the country down in the way that the miners could during the 70s. The thing I wonder is will a future government have to take on the lorry drivers in the way that the conservatives took on the miners in the 80s. I think that the public will have more empathy with the lorry drivers as they share their addiction to cheap oil.

Tin foil hats? best get em now, the price of tin will continue to rise along with the rest of the metals. I have my special sun-glasses to help shield my eyes from the propaganda.



I think people don't realise how fragile their lives are. They just assume they will be able to drive down to the supermarket and buy what they want.

That's one hell of a vid there !

"Obey"
"This is your God"

And http://prisonplanet.com/ is an interesting website for news.

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#20 enrieb

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Posted 21 May 2008 - 01:35 AM

QUOTE (Steve Netwriter @ May 20 2008, 10:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
"Obey"
"This is your God"

And http://prisonplanet.com/ is an interesting website for news.


Yep John Carpenters 'They Live' is an at times an interesting all though slightly crap film commenting about the rampant consumerism of the 80s, despite the greatest fight scene of all time paid homage to by south park, yet I feel that prison planet is although an interesting site full of all sorts of some good and credible information but the site is overwhelmed by conspiracy theories that have little credibility and reflect badly upon the site owners.

I sometimes wonder if the main active contributers to the prison planet site 9/11 vids are not average Internet users or true believers but a funded unit of the CIA to undermine the credibility of the peak oil movement in the way that the whole UFO disinformation smoke screen was used to hide 70s stealth aircraft technology. Although I must admit that my tinfoil hat has been missing for quite some time and I suspect the reptilians of some kind of hat depriving species of-hat foiling to their own home planet where tin foil hats are the currency.




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