18 replies to this topic

[DrBubb]

SO FAR politicians seem to think it is their job to SAVE banks, and reward reckless behaviour with bailouts.
Is that pattern about to change?

Bigger event than 9/11 coming etc
Seems to have been pretty spot on with his timing so far
Ireland
Korea
Wikileaks
what's next?

Stock market is back testing the highs
- THAT doesnt fit in somehow

Wall Street and the banksters are being allowed to win so far...

Rothschild's bankrupt Inter-Alpha Group, now controlling 70% of the worlds banking functions is about to either go under, or take over the other thirty percent, and gain complete control over all nations on the planet. China is not the problem the British (Rothschild) monetary system is the problem.

Welcome to The Inter-Alpha Group of Banks
The Inter Alpha Group of Banks was established in 1971 by six major European Community banks. At that time, the member banks had only limited experience in the international banking markets. The Group was formed to provide a platform for the regular exchange of ideas and explore areas for co-operation. The Group has no hierarchical structure and is connected only by a loosely worded ‘Agreement’ with each bank retaining its autonomy and independence.

The Group’s function has developed to:

Provide a platform for the regular exchange of ideas at Executive and Senior Management level
Allow specialists to meet and discuss topics of particular interest
Establish areas of co operation, particularly in international trade
Train junior and middle management by means of an annual Inter-Alpha Banking School and annual Inter-Alpha Banking Management Programme at INSEAD at Fountainbleau near Paris
Create a framework for individual banks within the Group to work together.

Membership of the group has now grown to eleven banks, representing fifteen European countries, namely:

AIB Group, Eire
BANCO ESPIRITO SANTO SA, Portugal
Santander, Spain
Soc Gen, France
ING Bank, the Netherlands
Intesa Sanpaolo
KBC Bank, Belgium
Nordea, Denmark, Finland and Sweden
National Bank of Greece, Greece
Commerzbank
The Royal Bank of Scotland Group, UK

/source: http://www.inter-alpha.com/

[DrBubb]

Someone in Ireland has already started a Facebook page with this theme:

The Mayor of Clare has called on members of the public to retaliate against any bank that raises mortgage interest rates by withholding mortgage payments, withdrawing bank savings and demanding that employers provide all wage payments in cash.
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Punish-The-B...103911246317246

another way:
Obviously, putting your money into physical gold denies banks access to your savings.
One reason they do not like Gold is it is hard for them to profit from investments in it.

[InternationalRockSuperstar]

SO FAR politicians seem to think it is their job to SAVE banks

well it is.

bankers run the world.

politicians are merely the PR and Collections Department for the banking system.

if you still don't get that after $x trillion bailouts, then maybe you never will.

[Newbear]

Let's see what comes out of the general election next year in Ireland. I think it is possible that public anger there at the banks and the EU will result in a government prepared to default and force the bondholders to start paying.

[DrBubb]

well it is.
bankers run the world.
politicians are merely the PR and Collections Department for the banking system.

Eventually, the Voters will wake up and rebel, and that process has started with the US Teaparty movement,
and will intensify as voters in places like Greece and Ireland get hit with austerity and higher taxes.

The will make the connection, and think: "Why are we suffering this pain, and why should we pay higher taxes.
If the banks are the main beneficiaries, we need different politicians representing us."

Those who warned, like Ron Paul, will gain support, whilst those that failed to stand up to the banks will find their
seats in jeopardy.

[DrBubb]

Let's see what comes out of the general election next year in Ireland. I think it is possible that public anger there at the banks and the EU will result in a government prepared to default and force the bondholders to start paying.

Indeed, we have already seen a reaction like that in Iceland.

Why should a list of banks like this...

Welcome to The Inter-Alpha Group of Banks
Membership of the group has now grown to eleven banks, representing fifteen European countries, namely:

AIB Group, Eire
BANCO ESPIRITO SANTO SA, Portugal
Santander, Spain
Soc Gen, France
ING Bank, the Netherlands
Intesa Sanpaolo
KBC Bank, Belgium
Nordea, Denmark, Finland and Sweden
National Bank of Greece, Greece
Commerzbank
The Royal Bank of Scotland Group, UK

/source: http://www.inter-alpha.com/

...controlled by the Rothschilds be the main or sole beneficiaries of all this pain?

[DrBubb]

WONDERFUL speech by Charlie Chaplin here:
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread636294/pg1

Anti-Greed, anti-NWO
== == ==

Despite Their Unpunished Crimes, Obama Says, "I Don't Want to Punish the Banks"

By Mike Elk .. January 28, 2010

Last night during the State of the Union, President Obama, while calling for tough financial reform said, he "was not interested in punishing the banks." Besides being an awful sound bite, it misses the point that there are literally thousands of crimes the banks have committed that that have gone unpunished.

The FBI warned of 12,000 cases of mortgage fraud being committed in 2004 alone, with banks initiating 80% of the fraud. The FBI repeatedly warned throughout the mid 2000's of the most massive wave of financial crimes being committed since the Savings and Loans Scandals during the 1980's.

Yet, the Savings and Loans scandal saw over a thousand industry insiders go to jail, while the current crisis has only seen a few crooks like Bernie Madoff go to jail. None of the big fish, who were the CEOs at the major banks who encouraged such "epidemic fraud," as the FBI labeled it, have been put in jail.
. . .
We have to make the punishment for financial fraud greater than the rewards the multimillion bonus culture of Wall Street has to offer. We need to throw some guys into jail in order to scare these Wall Street guys in to behaving in the interests of the American people.

Not only is this a smart step in terms of protecting our economy, it's a smart politics. Everybody hates the banks, and yet both parties are doing more about Wall Street than Main Street. If President Obama had called for a massive investigation of Wall Street employing thousands of investigations, there wouldn't be a single teabagger in the country that wouldn't agree with him.

When President Obama gets up and says he doesn't want to punish the banks, he makes Americans raging against the banks think he isn't as angry with the banks as they are. As a result of such weak sounding rhetoric, they ignore the fact that his calls for financial reform are the toughest offered since the Great Depression.

/see: http://www.ourfuture.org/blog-entry/201001...nt-punish-banks

[DrBubb]

Contradictory Views ...
(1)
Financials poised to gain‎
MarketWatch - Jeff Reeves - 9 Nov 2010

Nobody in Washington is going to push for fines to punish the banks — especially those where the US taxpayer is a major investor. ...

(2)
Time for a financial regulation timeout?‎
Financial News - William Wright - 14 Nov 2010

Understandably, politicians across Europe have to be seen to be doing something to punish the banks and reform the banking system – not least because of the ...

News Search: http://www.google.com/search?"Punish+Banks"...
== == ==

I think this movement will start in Europe

If Ron Paul becomes chairman of the Fed oversight committee, the mood in Washington may change

[InternationalRockSuperstar]

bankers run the world.

politicians are merely the PR and Collections Department for the banking system.

if you still don't get that after $x trillion bailouts, then maybe you never will.

Eventually, the Voters will wake up and rebel, and that process has started with the US Teaparty movement,
and will intensify as voters in places like Greece and Ireland get hit with austerity and higher taxes.
...

voting is not an act of rebellion; it is an act of compliance.

a slave who has a choice of masters is not a free man - and general elections are, at best, a choice of puppets.

...
The will make the connection, and think: "Why are we suffering this pain, and why should we pay higher taxes.
If the banks are the main beneficiaries, we need different politicians representing us."
...

the tax man and his best mates are always the main beneficiaries of any extortion system ('taxation system').

that's the whole point of the system!

different politicians will not change that.

[PJohnP]

... general elections are, at best, a choice of puppets.

Do you have an alternative idea to representative democracy?

[DrBubb]

Why bail out the banks?

John Mauldin asks in this Featured Editorial from FSU:

Texas, Ireland, and Ten Little Indians
John Mauldin  .. 4 Dec 2010

Why is it that the Irish must take upon themselves the debts of their banks, which in reality are debts owed to German and French banks? Why should the Germans bail out the Greeks and the Spanish? Is the spread of "contagion" starting to...



A lot of that Irish debt is owed to German, French, and UK banks. A lot more debt owed to banks than the Greeks owe, which had everyone worried not so long ago. See the graph above. (For those who are seeing this in black and white, the top section is Spain, then Portugal, Ireland, and Greece. Irish and Spanish debt dwarfs Greek debt.

And that chart is what is really going on in Europe. It is not about Germany and France wanting to help out Ireland and Greece (and eventually Portugal and Spain). They are not that benevolent. It is that they are worried about their banks going belly up.

/more: http://financialsense.com/contributors/joh...-little-indians

This is what the Bank Credit Analyst sent out this morning.

"The different adjustment paths of Ireland and Iceland are classic examples of devaluation versus deflation.

"Iceland and Ireland experienced similar economic illnesses prior to their respective crises: Both economies had too much private-sector debt and the banking system was massively overleveraged. Iceland's total external debt reached close to 1000% of its GDP in 2008. By the end of the year, Iceland's entire banking system was crushed and the stock market dropped by more than 95% from its 2007 highs. Since then, Iceland has followed the classic adjustment path of a debt crisis-stricken economy: The krona was devalued by more than 60% against the euro and the government was forced to implement draconian austerity programs.

"In Ireland, the boom in real estate prices triggered a massive borrowing binge, driving total private non-financial sector debt to almost 200% of GDP, among the highest in the euro area economy. In stark contrast to the Icelandic situation, however, the Irish economy has become stuck in a debt-deflation spiral. The government has lost all other options but to accept the €85 billion bailout package from the EU and the IMF. The big problem for Ireland is that fiscal austerity without a large currency devaluation is like committing economic suicide - without a cheapened currency to re-create nominal growth, fiscal austerity can only serve to crush aggregate demand and precipitate an economic downward spiral. The sad reality is that unlike Iceland, Ireland does not have the option of devaluing its own currency, implying that further harsh economic adjustment is likely."



This is what it looks like in the charts. Notice that Iceland is seeing its nominal GDP rise while Ireland is still in freefall, even after doing the "right thing" by taking on their bank debt.

[InternationalRockSuperstar]

... general elections are, at best, a choice of puppets.

Do you have an alternative idea to representative democracy?

• yes, a free market.  anything else is theft and/or rape.
• democracy is power in the hands of the people; government is power in the hands of the few.  democratic government is a contradictions of terms, not that that stops the MSM parroting it along with all the other blackwhites.
• the idea that some guy you've never even met is going to represent you better than you can represent yourself is laughable.

[d2thdr]

... general elections are, at best, a choice of puppets.

Do you have an alternative idea to representative democracy?

This is the only way forward.


Capitalism failed. Communism failed.

Progressive Utilization Theory (PROUT) has the best chance.

[PJohnP]

This is the only way forward.

Thanks for that link.  It looks most interesting, and I shall read it more fully when I've a little more time.

I agree that another route than capitalism or communism is needed ... but my original gripe was against those who sneer at democracy.

[romans holiday]

Thanks for that link.  It looks most interesting, and I shall read it more fully when I've a little more time.

I agree that another route than capitalism or communism is needed ... but my original gripe was against those who sneer at democracy.

The problem is the doctrinaire -ism, or the ideological approach which takes something that's complex and tries to reduce and simplify it. So for example the ideologists took society, first some tried to reduce it to the public sphere, and next others tried to reduce it to the private sphere [typically reactionary].

Politics, like a lot of things in life, should have its basis in pragmatics, not ideology... practical reason, not pure reason. Pragmatics, if allowed to, usually finds a middle way...

[DrBubb]

THE REALISATION that saving the banks is harming the people ... is spreading in Ireland

On the streets of Dublin last week, there was anger and disillusionment, largely directed at bankers, with government ministers as secondary targets. In a budget on Tuesday, finance minister Brian Lenihan will outline a €15bn austerity package sufficient to satisfy Ajai "The Chopper" Chopra, leader of the IMF delegation camped out at Dublin's Merrion hotel.

"What's the point of having a constitution if we're not economically sovereign?" asked Paul O'Sullivan, an urban planner from Cork, who was protesting outside the capital's parliament building with a sign declaring: "Bailed out, slopping out, the jury's out."

Another demonstrator, maintenance worker Paul Shields, said: "The IMF are here for one thing: to take care of the German banks, the Swiss banks, the British banks who are owed money by our banks. This will cost our country billions over the years."
. . .
David Begg, general secretary of the Irish Congress of Trade Unions, told the Observer that he feared the impending programme of austerity will push Ireland into a "lost decade" akin to Japan's stagnation in the 1990s. " I think we'll go into a very big slump; probably like the Japanese experienced in the 1990s, maybe worse. I don't have any hopes at all that this will solve the problem," he said.

Unions oppose a €1 cut in the minimum wage to €7.65 (£6.42), although this will still be well above Britain's £5.93. And Begg argued for a slower, longer-term period of budget deficit reduction: "There's a better, fairer way of doing this."


/source: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/dec/0...-crisis-bailout

Nigel Farage should be popular there

[DrBubb]

Bailout money is another loan.

In the months and years to come, it can be defaulted upon too.  Who will then make Europe whole.

The sad and unfair thing here is that the banks have manage to make their problem, the people's problem

[DrBubb]

THE BATTLE against the rapacist actions of the bankster may soon come to America.  It's an old fight

Thomas Jefferson, warned his fellow citizens:

“If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issuance of their currency, first by inflation, and then by deflation, the banks and the corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all property until their children wake up homeless on the continent their father's conquered ... I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies ... The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the Government, to whom it properly belongs.”

The Seventh President of the United States, Andrew Jackson, took up Jefferson’s fight and further warned his citizens:

“I am one of those who do not believe that a national debt is a national blessing, but rather a curse to a republic; inasmuch as it is calculated to raise around the administration a moneyed aristocracy dangerous to the liberties of the country.”

And to the moneyed elite Plutocracy of his time Jackson further said:

“Gentlemen, I have had men watching you for a long time and I am convinced that you have used the funds of the bank to speculate in the breadstuffs of the country. When you won, you divided the profits amongst you, and when you lost, you charged it to the bank. You tell me that if I take the deposits from the bank and annul its charter, I shall ruin ten thousand families. That may be true, gentlemen, but that is your sin! Should I let you go on, you will ruin fifty thousand families, and that would be my sin! You are a den of vipers and thieves.”

/source: http://www.whatdoesitmean.com/index1417.htm

[DrBubb]

(Charles Hugh Smith explains it far better than I have):

Ireland, Please Do the World a Favor and Default   (November 29, 2010)

Ireland would save the world from much misery by defaulting now and driving the vampire banks into liquidation.
The alternative title for today's entry is: Ireland, please drive a stake through the heart of the vampire banks which have the world by the throat. The entire controlled demolition of the Eurozone's finances can be summed up in one phrase: privatize leverage and profits, socialize losses and risk.

The basic deal is this: protect the bank's managers, shareholders and bondholders from any losses, while heaping the socialized losses and risks on the taxpayers and citizens.

While there are murmurings of "forcing bondholders to share the pain," any future haircut will undoubtedly be just for show, while the Irish pension funds are gutted to bail out the banks.

(1)

(2)


It's rather straightforward: as asset bubbles rise, they enable vast leveraging of credit and debt. Once mal-invested assets collapse in value, then the debt remains, unsupported by equity or capital.

As the Financial/Political Elites transfer these catastrophic losses onto the citizenry, they set off a positive (runaway) feedback loop: the Central State austerity required to pay the borrowing costs of the bailout sends the economy into recession, which reduces borrowers' incomes, triggering more defaults which further sink housing prices. As prices continue falling, bank capital declines, requiring ever-larger bailouts to provide the banks with a simulacrum of solvency.

Austerity measures must be tightened to channel more of the citizens' incomes to the banks, which further suppresses the economy, lowering tax revenues and incomes, which leads to more austerity to fund more bailouts, and so on, until the haggard remnants of a once-wealthy citizenry finally rebel against their Financial/Political Overlords and topple the government which arranged the bailout.

A new populist government announces a sovereign default, to widespread huzzahs from the unyoked citizenry.

/more: http://www.oftwominds.com/blognov10/Irelan...fault11-10.html