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The Livestock & Home produce thread - An Alternative investment


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#21 Silent reader

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Posted 31 May 2009 - 08:21 PM

QUOTE (underling @ May 31 2009, 12:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
May I also ask the question whether any of you have had any tutorship prior to starting your projects or whether you have had to gain knowledge from books, tv progs and/or internet based sources ?


Any knowledge that I've picked up is through friends (word of mouth) the Internet and two first class books, one of them being the RHS Encyclopedia of gardening, which I strongly recommend. I did have the good fortune to have been given these books by a family friend.

For me personally THRIFT is a major factor, and the rewards are fantastic.

But how far can you go towards actually living off it would take a lot of labor, so I’m quite interested as to how fruit and vegetates will be grown with new technologies being invented. I mean, there are things you can do to contribute to energy saving buy installing solar panels etc, but will technologies such as hydroponic systems help someone such as a small holder be able to yield enough produce to feed themselves? their family ? or maybe even their community ? and this is a subject I need to educate myself on.



Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? ..................... That's what it is to be a slave.

We all have one thing in common… everyone dies, but not everyone gets to live. REVEL in your time !

#22 Cuthbert Calculus

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Posted 31 May 2009 - 08:47 PM

I too keep chickens in my garden in Wandsworth..

We always have foexes around so I am wary about letting them run free during the day.

I have two in an eglu which I have had for about six years. One of mine has turned broody too and has barely emerged from her nest for weeks.

#23 lowrentyieldmakessense(honest!)

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Posted 01 June 2009 - 08:22 AM

thought this was worth posting

6,000lbs of food from 10% of an acre

http://lewrockwell.c...pirko5.1.1.html


QUOTE
The individuals putting in gardens today are not thinking solely about today’s recession, they are thinking about tomorrow’s possible depression along with probable future food shortages. They are thinking long-term and understand that while today’s cash outflow is a break-even, next years and subsequent years represent independence from at least some portion of the “food system.” They also realize that long term much of our global agriculture system is in real trouble and it may not be very long before capacity of production becomes heavily eclipsed by the most basic need the global population has, the need to eat every day.

So what are the biggest threats we have to our food supply today? They include…

* Grain production has been maxed out and we have failed to meet global grain demands for 6 of the past 9 years.
* Enough U.S. produced grain to feed a half billion people for a year will be converted to ethanol in 2009.
* Many nations are now creating long-term contracts with other nations to lock up the grain being produced by the few remaining large net exporters.
* China, India, The U.S., The UK, Malaysia, South Africa and Japan are now all “net importers of food.” Translation: a combined population of over 2.7 billion can no longer feed themselves without foreign dependence.
* Many shallow aquifers have been fully depleted and the largest fossil aquifers in the world are now being depleted. 70% of global water usage is for agriculture and we are running out of the water used for that purpose.
* Companies such as Monsanto are altering food at a genetic level taking massive risks with our food supply by releasing altered genetics into the biosphere via cross pollination.

These six threats are just the beginning; we have also lost a huge portion of genetic diversity via the practice of “monoculture,” soil is losing fertility faster then it is being replenished and soil erosion is turning previously fertile land fallow. In short global population and demand for food is rising while the long-term trend of increasing food production is flattening and threatening to soon go into a decline.

This is an area where many modern survivalists are finding common ground with an unlikely ally, those heavily into the eco movement. The two sides are sill miles apart on many issues; survivalists tend to be conservatives or libertarians and the eco crowd tends to be quite liberal and tends toward a socialist or statist viewpoint on many issues. Even on the issues of gardening and permaculture there are often huge differences on why the need exists but what is agreed upon is the need itself.

Hence even some of those of the edges of both movements are finding a common bridge in understanding the need to create individually managed sustainable agriculture. In other words it doesn’t mater if it is “global warming” or “incompetent politicians” that will be the cause of a coming food shortage; either way the solution is individual action. That action is as simple as beginning to produce just a portion of your own food. The potential production on even small suburban lots is shocking. One family led by a self-proclaimed “agrarian revolutionary” named Jules Dervaes is currently producing about 6,000 lbs of food per year on 1/10th of an acre! While that is the extreme, if perhaps 30% of suburban homes would produce even 10% of what Mr. Dervaes is producing, can you see how large the impact would be?

(This video of Mr. Dervaes’ home is quite inspiring and well worth the 10 minutes required to view it.)

Here is the real beauty in producing some of your own food via sustainable agriculture and long-term permaculture techniques…

* You can do it now even with containers if you are an apartment dweller
* It has an immediate impact on your personal situation
* It has a positive impact on your health and property value
* It provides insurance against a future shortage of food (personal or global)
* Entering into your second year the savings of cash is significant
* It reduces your dependence upon several systems (agriculture, distribution, etc.)


QUOTE
"You have to choose, as a voter, between trusting to the national stability of gold and the natural stability and intelligence of governments. I advise you, as long as the capitalist system lasts, to vote for gold."

George Bernard Shaw


QUOTE
The modern banking system manufactures money out of nothing. The process is perhaps the most astounding piece of sleight of hand that was ever invented. Banking was conceived in inequity and born in sin . . . . Bankers own the earth. Take it away from them but leave them the power to create money, and, with a flick of a pen, they will create enough money to buy it back again. . . . Take this great power away from them and all great fortunes like mine will disappear, for then this would be a better and happier world to live in. . . . But, if you want to continue to be the slaves of bankers and pay the cost of your own slavery, then let bankers continue to create money and control credit.

Sir Josiah Stamp, director of the Bank of England and the second richest man in Britain in the 1920s

#24 underling

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Posted 01 June 2009 - 09:13 AM

QUOTE (lupercal @ May 31 2009, 12:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
radish have just disappeared. Not sure what's happened to them.



I had the same last season with radish (grown outdoors). I put it down to pests (though no evidence to support that claim it was the only thing that I thought would explain them vanishing) so as an experiment this year I kept them in the greenhouse and all plants have been successful and great eating as are my tatties and lettuce. I'm really hoping to get some success out of the melons this year but am down to one plant as my kids decided to kill off the rest in being careless with a football .................

A pear tree I planted when I first moved in 9 years ago is fully loaded this season after a couple of years of producing just one or two fruits. I'm unsure as to whether this is due to maturity issues or whether the 'bee-friendly' plants I've grown have helped but it certainly made a nice surprise when my kids came in all excited after being first to spot all the growths.

rolleyes.gif


Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it.

#25 Silent reader

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Posted 02 June 2009 - 06:21 PM

QUOTE (Cuthbert Calculus @ May 31 2009, 09:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
We always have foxes around so I am wary about letting them run free during the day.


A tip I once heard is if you have a dog, to walk it around the area where the chickens are as this helps keep the foxes away.


QUOTE (lowrentyieldmakessense(honest @ Jun 1 2009, 09:22 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
thought this was worth posting

6,000lbs of food from 10% of an acre

http://lewrockwell.c...pirko5.1.1.html




Thats a fantastic video, and a great link, thanks smile.gif
Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? ..................... That's what it is to be a slave.

We all have one thing in common… everyone dies, but not everyone gets to live. REVEL in your time !

#26 lupercal

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Posted 04 June 2009 - 03:23 PM

Foxes are hard to predict. I was at a wedding in Derby the other week, a fox walked straight though the garden and had a look into the tent that was set up. There was a baby in there and his father shouted at the fox to scare it. it walked away, very slowly not scared at all.
QUOTE
The thing is the future isn't something that's rammed down our throats. The future is a choice. The human race is six or seven billion odd people each of which is making choices every day. You add up all those choices and that's the direction of humanity. Each of us has fairly small voices, but you add up a lot of small voices and you get big voices.
James Gosling Coder.

#27 underling

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Posted 04 June 2009 - 08:59 PM


Whilst fox populations increase it's widely known that they seem to be thriving in towns and cities living the life of a scavenger. Though this is not necessarily a bad thing I don't doubt that within a short period of time they will become less skittish around humans which may be the first steps towards domestication.

Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it.

#28 Cuthbert Calculus

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Posted 05 June 2009 - 11:46 PM

I don't have a dog unfortunately. But the foxes are so common and unafraid round here now it's astonishing.

Another tactic is, I am told, to pee nearby but it doesn't really seem to work.

#29 lowrentyieldmakessense(honest!)

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Posted 07 June 2009 - 08:59 PM

QUOTE (Cuthbert Calculus @ Jun 6 2009, 12:46 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I don't have a dog unfortunately. But the foxes are so common and unafraid round here now it's astonishing.

Another tactic is, I am told, to pee nearby but it doesn't really seem to work.

good for compost though - apparently
QUOTE
"You have to choose, as a voter, between trusting to the national stability of gold and the natural stability and intelligence of governments. I advise you, as long as the capitalist system lasts, to vote for gold."

George Bernard Shaw


QUOTE
The modern banking system manufactures money out of nothing. The process is perhaps the most astounding piece of sleight of hand that was ever invented. Banking was conceived in inequity and born in sin . . . . Bankers own the earth. Take it away from them but leave them the power to create money, and, with a flick of a pen, they will create enough money to buy it back again. . . . Take this great power away from them and all great fortunes like mine will disappear, for then this would be a better and happier world to live in. . . . But, if you want to continue to be the slaves of bankers and pay the cost of your own slavery, then let bankers continue to create money and control credit.

Sir Josiah Stamp, director of the Bank of England and the second richest man in Britain in the 1920s

#30 InternationalRockSuperstar

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Posted 11 August 2009 - 08:02 PM

QUOTE (Silent reader @ May 26 2009, 07:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
25x Sweet corn (aiming for at least 50 heads of corn)


any luck?

all mine have either 2 or 3 cobs this year; I'd say about 2.75 on average.

#31 Silent reader

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Posted 12 August 2009 - 09:35 PM

QUOTE (InternationalRockSuperstar @ Aug 11 2009, 09:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
any luck?

all mine have either 2 or 3 cobs this year; I'd say about 2.75 on average.


Heading that way, a couple of the plants have got 4 cobs, some have got 3 but most only have 2 cobs.

I’m not touching them for at least a couple of weeks, as I’m saving them for a bank holiday BBQ.

Courgettes are by fair the winners this year, 9 plants in total (8 gold & 1 Green) have yielded somewhere around 100 - 150. I 've even filled up a banana box and gave it to my neighbour to sell on her stall. I'll hopefully find out this weekend if they've sold.

Tomatoes are the losers for me......... all I’ll say is "Blight"

Chickens are laying around 4 per day, (still got a broody one)

Runners (down to 4 plants) are producing plenty.


Side projects I'm currently working on are an apple press, and a bee hive..... But these are still at a "paper drawing" stage. Hopefully I’ll also get to knock out some cider.

If the cider works out well, tempted to call it "Incyder trading" or maybe the "Sussex Incyder" any other suggestions are welcome of course.


What has been successful this year for you ?

Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? ..................... That's what it is to be a slave.

We all have one thing in common… everyone dies, but not everyone gets to live. REVEL in your time !

#32 id5

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Posted 13 August 2009 - 10:29 AM

QUOTE (Silent reader @ Aug 12 2009, 10:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
...
If the cider works out well, tempted to call it "Incyder trading" or maybe the "Sussex Incyder" any other suggestions are welcome of course.
...

If you get any spare cider then stick it outside in a covered bucket during Winter and each day take the ice out. When the frosts stop filter what is in the bucket to remove the bits. The remainder is AppleJack but FFS if it is a cold winter be careful as it can get a bit powerfull laugh.gif
The market can stay irrational longer than you can stay solvent. - John Maynard Keynes

I must remember that investing is a marathon and not a sprint!

#33 underling

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Posted 13 August 2009 - 03:54 PM


I've been fairly reliably told by an experienced cider producer that if you allow bugs to enter the mix then it can also produce some rather hallucagenic effects . Not overly sure whether he was pulling my leg or not ................


Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it.

#34 lupercal

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Posted 13 August 2009 - 06:54 PM

Has anyone made mead?
QUOTE
The thing is the future isn't something that's rammed down our throats. The future is a choice. The human race is six or seven billion odd people each of which is making choices every day. You add up all those choices and that's the direction of humanity. Each of us has fairly small voices, but you add up a lot of small voices and you get big voices.
James Gosling Coder.

#35 InternationalRockSuperstar

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Posted 13 August 2009 - 07:58 PM

QUOTE (Silent reader @ Aug 12 2009, 10:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
What has been successful this year for you ?


sweet peas had a really good yield. will definately grow more of them in future. it's amazing how much better they taste than the ones from the shops. to be honest, I never actually realised that I liked pease 'till I grew them myself!

turns out spinach (although not really food biggrin.gif ) has a good yield and is particulary useful if you want to grow a leafy salad type crop in an area which is too shady for lettuce.

I mentioned sweetcorn before. not a bad yield considering we don't really have the climate for it. haven't started harvest these yet.

carrots were good, although they grew in weird crooked shapes because the soil was too hard to grow straight down (I must have not dug over that bit well enough).

spuds are/were as reliable as ever.

my tomatoes are shite also laugh.gif . this is the 2nd year running they've been shit. I won't bother with tomotoes next year.

I've got a few other things but those are the main crops.

am moving from West London to West Oxfordshire next month, so I will have LOTS more space next year. smile.gif

#36 Silent reader

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Posted 14 August 2009 - 02:58 PM

QUOTE (id5 @ Aug 13 2009, 11:29 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
If you get any spare cider then stick it outside in a covered bucket during Winter and each day take the ice out. When the frosts stop filter what is in the bucket to remove the bits. The remainder is AppleJack but FFS if it is a cold winter be careful as it can get a bit powerfull laugh.gif


I have never heard of Applejack before....... Wikipedia has got this on it.

http://en.wikipedia....jack_(beverage)

Yep, I can see me giving this a go, Thanks id5 smile.gif

QUOTE (lupercal @ Aug 13 2009, 07:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Has anyone made mead?


Never made Mead, I have to admit I’ve never even tasted it. But after finding out about Applejack in the last ½ hour..... I think I’ll give this ago first.




QUOTE (InternationalRockSuperstar @ Aug 13 2009, 08:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
turns out spinach (although not really food biggrin.gif ) has a good yield and is particulary useful if you want to grow a leafy salad type crop in an area which is too shady for lettuce.

.........

my tomatoes are shite also laugh.gif . this is the 2nd year running they've been shit. I won't bother with tomatoes next year.


Grew some Chard this year and that did pretty well, but not really pleasing to my taste buds, regret not growing some Spinach this year but I’ll be doing some of that next year.

I think the problems are caused by wet and humid summers, and I've read that spraying them with a copper based fungicide should sort them out. I've given up with this years batch (i managed to get some off) but I’ll be giving these a lot more attention next year.

Good luck in Oxfordshire, it's a beautiful county...... as I'm sure you are fully aware smile.gif


Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? ..................... That's what it is to be a slave.

We all have one thing in common… everyone dies, but not everyone gets to live. REVEL in your time !

#37 id5

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Posted 14 August 2009 - 06:49 PM

QUOTE (Silent reader @ Aug 14 2009, 03:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I have never heard of Applejack before....... Wikipedia has got this on it.

http://en.wikipedia....jack_(beverage)

Yep, I can see me giving this a go, Thanks id5 smile.gif
...


Don't you just love it, US, US, US, blah, blah, blah....

Applejack has been made in the Somerset levels from before it had people to emigrate to America, or Romans invading or writing.
The market can stay irrational longer than you can stay solvent. - John Maynard Keynes

I must remember that investing is a marathon and not a sprint!

#38 langtonbrow

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Posted 17 August 2009 - 09:08 AM

Interesting to hear of peoples approaches to minimising their footprint, getting closer to nature and securing their own quality food source. As a regular reader, it inspired me to my first post.

Currently in the Philippines over the summer. Here we are growing:

Mango's - (a mature tree in the yard is yielding fruit aplenty.
Rice - 1 hectare owned and crop shared with rental farmer can supply all family needs and generate a surplus. Several crops annually.
Pigs - All food waste rears three pigs, one of which is earmarked for the fiesta next week.

The only downside of this is that I am wasting the carefully tended tomato, aubergine and chili crops in the glasshouse back home (Lancashire). Outside efforts are poor, with carrots forked from excessive clay soil and potatoes somewhat blighted. I shall improve soil with raised beds for next year.

Hope the stand in gardener has done her job well. As a fan of fresh produce I'm sure she will have.


Happy market gardening to all.


#39 Silent reader

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Posted 17 August 2009 - 04:59 PM

QUOTE (langtonbrow @ Aug 17 2009, 10:08 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Interesting to hear of peoples approaches to minimising their footprint, getting closer to nature and securing their own quality food source. As a regular reader, it inspired me to my first post.


Welcome to GEI smile.gif


Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? ..................... That's what it is to be a slave.

We all have one thing in common… everyone dies, but not everyone gets to live. REVEL in your time !

#40 lowrentyieldmakessense(honest!)

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Posted 18 August 2009 - 04:43 PM

QUOTE (Silent reader @ Aug 12 2009, 10:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
If the cider works out well, tempted to call it "Incyder trading" or maybe the "Sussex Incyder" any other suggestions are welcome of course.

sounds interesting - have planted three apple trees but growth has been stunted this year and last year due to ants farming aphids - just discovered fruit tree greese to stop them
QUOTE
"You have to choose, as a voter, between trusting to the national stability of gold and the natural stability and intelligence of governments. I advise you, as long as the capitalist system lasts, to vote for gold."

George Bernard Shaw


QUOTE
The modern banking system manufactures money out of nothing. The process is perhaps the most astounding piece of sleight of hand that was ever invented. Banking was conceived in inequity and born in sin . . . . Bankers own the earth. Take it away from them but leave them the power to create money, and, with a flick of a pen, they will create enough money to buy it back again. . . . Take this great power away from them and all great fortunes like mine will disappear, for then this would be a better and happier world to live in. . . . But, if you want to continue to be the slaves of bankers and pay the cost of your own slavery, then let bankers continue to create money and control credit.

Sir Josiah Stamp, director of the Bank of England and the second richest man in Britain in the 1920s




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